Nick
No Nick it means you have just shown the difference between an article with an air of credibility and an article that is ignorant tosh.
This article speaks of the Gorshkov operating 20 MiG-29’s AND LCA(N)’s when, as we all know, it’ll be at pretty much full capacity with 16 Fulcrums and the necessary rotary’s. Then it adds 700km to 700km and gets 2400km….yeesh.
Actually it proves the point. That relying on single reports especially when it comes to procurement issues…is not sensible. Now you can cherrypick all you wish, but such is the reality. You can state that the earlier report was “credible” when it promptly declares that 2400 km of cabling was to be done. Whereas this one, makes the point that it was an incremental increase of 700 Km. Its but obvious you’d choose the earlier one, since that was what you swore by, but the reality is obvious- that none of these speculative reports by themselves are worth a dime, and that it would take half a dozen plus an actual source within Sevmash or the IN to make sense of the thing.
The original article, plus the second Russian-sourced one the other poster provided about the worse condition of the superstructure than was believed, were either precise in their details or from a source with no reason to obfuscate. This article citing the IN CoS is neither precise nor does the quote from the Admiral have the credibility to be taken as politically unbiased. The current RN 1SL is known to be a believer in CATOBAR, for example, he will tell the media all about the merits of STOVL though because we are getting a STOVL carrier.
Sure enough, believe all you wish! The russian article was from their own website- with all the more reason to obfuscate, but you state it to be credible! If you wish to believe in conspiracy theories…the more power to you!
I read the long post you made earlier and, unfortunately, do not have a lot of time right now to critique it properly I’m afraid.
What I will say is that you are either trying very hard to obfuscate the real issues yourself or you present your arguments in a very confusing fashion.
That is well expected because frankly you dont know the basics of Indian military procurement and nor are you interested in learning the actual details that go into each case and have determined its choice. No sire, in your world its “national prestige” or whatever hocus cliche that swings the deal. You can stick to that if you wish..
You’ve spent a lot of time writing an apologists version of the inadequacies of the Indian procurement system and lamenting the lack of any other options available to the IN at the time. You’ve further stated that the economy of the day was too poor and the shipbuilding capacity inadequate to the task of stepping up to the challenge of the ADS.
Only a fool would take my post to be that. The other option is that you are intentionally being provocative, and that by itself merits a similar response.
My comment was and is simple- a process once started in a system which has already allocated limited funds for it, will be pursued by the service. Instead of cancelling it and pursuing an alternative which would take even more time to set up and pursue in a system which is hogtied by ad hoc funding availability, improper commitment to force modernisation and severe competition for available funds between the three services.
Now to you o sire, this may appear very “national prestige”ish or apologia whatever- surely such things dont happen in the RN!!, but the simple fact is that the IN chose the Gorshkov based on a set of criteria, and stuck by it since they knew anything else would take far too long and invite a whole new mess. It is also worth noticing that despite the lack of urgency viz the IN in the MOD, it is that service which has managed to maintain a constant force structure and is now even improving it (bar its abysmal LRMP coverage), whereas the IA and IAF have followed your suggestions to the T, and are stuck in tenders, retenders, RFP and RFQs.
You do this yet you accept that considerable investment was made available to do the acceptance studies for the Gorshkov, so much so that it could not be walked away from(?), and ignore the fact that several international yards, that had suitable brand-new designs, could have partnered up and secured investment and advancement for Indian industry. Obviously going to an international yard was no political obstacle as a Russian yard is doing the Gorshkov work right now….not an Indian one.
I’ll state this once more. The funds were already allocated for the Gorshkov design work and it wasnt regarded as sunk cost. But it promised a future return at any rate, as compared to spending the same amount on european yards who would act as system integrators, with multinational equipment for a navy which wanted as much as possible from one supplier, with only specific items taken from reliable countries, strategically. Secondly, in per unit costs the Gorshkov and its support package were offered dirt cheap, compared to the alternatives. The IN took a look at the local shipyards as well, saw what it had to do and made a choice and remained with it since it was pushed through at the apex level. In your world perhaps, the IN goes off to the nearest international shipyard, secures a design, comes back and voila- a local shipyard is ready, everythings hunky dory. Reality. The local shipyards are in to their gills already trying to meet the INs present commitments. The GOI has already stated that it does not have funds galore to spend on further shipyards or increasing their capacity. And the IN would have relied on them to deliver a carrier, a ship which they have had zilch experience of. And expected it to be ready just when they wanted it.
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