Hi there I have a kestrel V overhaul manual and and also a running and maintenance. Send me a pm and let me know what you need.
best wishes Pat

I am sure I’ll be shot for saying this but I feel I have to ask…

Why do people feel so strongly that his body has to be found at all cost and brought home? His family must surely have accepted by now that the poor chap is long dead. They will have surely moved on with their lives decades ago, and the public had no concern for him at all during the 70 years between his crash and the discovery of his aircraft.

His Mother, Brother and sister did all move on with their lives and accept the fact that he was dead. They never forgot him and they always held out hope that one day his body might be found and given a decent burial and they would finally know the truth about what happened to him. His surviving family would like to do that if at all possible. The public cannot be concerned with what they don’t know about as you say he was one of many lost. I am not aware that anybody has said his body should be found at all cost just if at all possible, i am not sure that, that is too much to ask?

Negating that it’s pretty much an impossibility to actually locate his remains now, finding his body at huge effort and expense just so he can be reburied and eventually forgotten in a cemetery – why?

These are all sweeping assumptions. How do you know it is pretty much impossible? How do you know it will require a huge effort and expense? Why do you assume he will be forgotten? He has not been in a cemetery for the last 70 years and he has not been forgotten so why would he be forgotten now? Most of the people who knew him personally are dead, not all but most and he is still very much not forgotten.

There are, after all, thousands of New Zealanders who died for the British Empire who’ve never been brought home. And tens of thousands of others also either missing, or lying in foreign cemeteries. Why the desire for so much effort for one person now? I really do not get it. And many of those advocating this search are the same people who’re so protective of war graves being untouched so the remains are not disturbed. A bit odd.

These efforts should not be just be expended on one person, i for one am grateful to have lived in relative peace and freedom all of my life and i appreciate that without the sacrifices made by ordinary people and their families that could have been very different. I personally believe that the effort and expense required to give these people a decent burial when possible is a small price to pay for the debt that we owe them.

Surely the recovery of his aircraft and placing it on public display will mean his memory and his story will be kept alive in a far better way for generations to come as people pass through the museum that it is displayed in. There will not be a steady stream of people visiting his grave in decades to come, but in a place like the RAF Museum his story of why he fought and how and why he died can be told and retold for centuries to come.

Why do you assume that he will be forgotten in years to come? People visit military cemeteries all over the world to pay respects to family members and to strangers that they have never met, a century after they died. Why do you assume that will not continue? Yes the aircraft in which he flew could well be a lasting memorial to his memory and should in what ever form that maybe. What you seem to lose sight of is the fact that the aircraft would not be important at all if it were not for the people who designed it, built it, flew and maintained it in the most difficult and dangerous of circumstances and in this case possibly died in it. I have for years now heard people calling the spitfire a legend. I am not going to say that it isn’t, but if it is it is because of the people who made it and fought and died in it. Without those people it would just be another aeroplane and we should not forget that. This particular aircraft is no different. That is the whole point we should not forget these people or their families and when we have an opportunity bring some closure to one family we should take it if possible. It may not be possible, it may be difficult but that does not mean we should not try. We waste epic amounts of money in this country so the relatively trifling amount that would be need to make a modest effort to find his remains is small change in the grand scheme of things. If it was handled in the right way it could actually be a very positive exercise for Britain and Egypt also.

Indeed – but one has to ask what would have been the case had the crews of either of those aircraft not been so easily found? How much time would have been spent looking?

The crew of the lady be good were not all found during the extensive search. Several were found by accident by british oil workers. One of the crew has never been positively identified but it is likely that a body discovered some distance away was his although this has never been positively established as far as I know.
I don’t think anyone has ever said recovering the P40 was not a good thing quite the opposite. However many people including myself find.it difficult to understand why apparently little or no effort has been expended on trying to recover Dennis Copping? I don’t believe that pointing out the fact that it may be difficult is really mitigation. If no effort is expended then the difficulty or likelihood of success are irrelevant?
At the risk of repeating myself I fully support the recovery of the aircraft and I hope that the efforts expended on that are successful. However I do feel that Dennis Copping should not be forgotten and given that a not inconsiderable amount of effort and money has been expended on this cause it would not have been too difficult, time consuming or expensive to go the extra mile or in this five miles or so.

It was a great privilege to be involved in collecting the fuselage, not to mention great fun. Thank you DaveR for inviting us! Everyone in Holland was as usually extremely hospitable especially Fort Veldhuis (Fieldhouse), which as Dave says is a mine of information and well worth a visit. We will definitely return! The effort that is put in by everyone at the museum to identify aircraft and crews puts our government to shame! Some of the stories that they have uncovered are extraordinary. They deserve all of our support. Long may it continue!
This is a really exciting development for any Typhoon fan (That’s everyone isn’t it?;)) The prospect of another Typhoon with a legitimate identity is worthy cause indeed. I look forward to helping in anyway that i can, So dig out all those drawings!

I’ve followed this thread with interest from the start. While the apparent slowness of the MOD and lack of action on the ground in Egypt seems to be the main, apparent, problem let’s consider the situation. Remains have been found and, thankfully, concealed and preserved for future recovery. However, we must bear in mind the current geo-political situation. Egypt has considerable problems with internal unrest, the North African region has seen turbulent times with westerners being targeted. You can be certain that the Egyptian authorities have more pressing commitments than to provide armed escort and safe passage for a recovery team – and they certainly would not countenance the prescence of an armed military expedition of a foreign power. While our good friend qattra has done so much to record and preserve what there is there must be an element of personal risk even in such a remote location once their continued presence is known. Perhaps that is why things are taking so long, to keep people away from the site and perceived dangers. Would we really expect the authorities to authorise an unprotected recovery and then take the flak if things went wrong. I, as much as you all, wish to see closure on this for the sake of Sgt Copping and his family but feel that we will just have to wait this out patiently.

All expeditions into the desert require a permit and are escorted. Usually by licences guides. Tourists are still visiting the area in question and have done so throughout the recent events in Egypt. I am only aware of one incident of western tourists being kidnapped in Egypt and this was in the sinai, an area known to be lawless long before the recent political upheaval. The p40 recovery was attended by the defence attaché from the UK embassy in Cairo, clearly he was not too busy to attend the recovery of the aircraft but now apparently the embassy are too busy to recover the pilot? There has already been an officially sanctioned expedition into the desert. It is nothing like as dangerous as it is ‘perceived’ save for the risk of dehydration! Anyone can organise this kind of trip into the desert.

So if i have understood correctly the MOD have told the Family that the bones discovered by the Italians have been deemed “unsuitable for DNA analysis”. Like most people (and the family!) I assumed that this meant the bones had been recovered to a laboratory and an unsuccessful attempt made to extract DNA. Now it transpires that in fact no one has either asked for or been given the location of the remains, making it highly unlikely that they have actually been recovered. So despite the fact that a fragment of parachute was discovered at that location it may well be that the decision has been made not to recover or test the remains as there is not enough circumstantial evidence that they are those of Dennis Copping?
If this is the case this is simply unacceptable, to quote a member of Dennis Coppings’ family “they found a fragment of parachute with the bones what more do they need?”
I find this whole situation extraordinary!

Well they did invent the contraption, I think they can probably call it whatever they like. Even if they don’t know how to spell it!