I am sure per capita income of city of tokyo/london/NewYork/Moscow will be higher and so does tax revenue. Just Moscow city tax revenuse are 3 times Singpore tax revenue and it is not even financial center. any large trading nation would have foreign reserves but it can only be used for proping its own trading system.
Bottom line is Singpore cant afford 5th generation fighters beyond 10 to 12.

When some individual cities are equal to Western world? If there’s a flaw in your argument I hope you can just humbly accept it. Can you show Moscow’s per capital to us as I already showed you the S’pore’s? For your guess is not credibility at all.

Sigh, we met many times, not only you got no clue in military related matters but also the more fundamental economic one.

The government linked companies of Sg are tasked to manage the city state’s vast foreign reserves and revenues. Like GIC is managing the foreign reserves. Tell us all, what trade promotion is it when GIC invested multi-billion USDs in Citigroup and purchased multi billion worth of shares into Barclays jointly with China Development bank ?

GIC pumps $9.8b into troubled Citigroup

One is already deployed and the other still under development stage.

:p .. never mind !

Thanks for that description … but the underlined, fat & red part couldn’t be completely correct as the decission to use the Spey 202 and later WS-9 instead of the originally planned WS-6 must have made earlier:

If I’m correct, the Xian made third prelimanary design proposal 10 November 1977 – most likely still with the WS-6 – but untill the roll -out in August 1988 and the first flight in December the change must have been done.

So my opinion is that during the prolonged and often delayed development phase, which came nearly to a halt between 1980~1981/82 (because of the country’s economic development was given a higher priority) this was the timeframe in which the engine was changed to the WS-9 … latestly by 1983 as at the same time Xian launched the testing program of the WS-9 turbofan engine !!

Anyway at the beginning of 1983, JH-7’s final configuration seems to have been finalized as its structural and system tests were completed, and the program moved into the stage of detailed full-scale development. The development project resumed full speed in 1984 only to be scaled down again in 1985 but was revived finally in 1986. After that XAC produced six prototype aircraft in 1987, with one used for static testing and the rest flight testing. The aircraft made its maiden flight on 14 December 1988.

So the question is: How many engines were built until the late 1980s ??

Deino

WS-6 is not a Xian’s project but Liming engine plant’s in Shenyang, actually because of WS-6 project onging in Shenyang Liming, the Xian No430 engine factory was able to secure the Spey MK202 deal.

How many engines were built until 1980s? the anwser is zero WS-9, I have already said RR has already sold 50+ Spey MK202 to Xian upon signing the TOT deal with Chinese counterpart. so the engine is always available should Xian decide to trail the new fighter. However, Ws-6 is never intended to be used for JH-7. rather for a new high speed/high altitude fighter. Ws-9 came to live only when JH-7 prototype powered by Spey MK202 seemed successful.

Even KJ200 “balance beam” matching up the Yankee’s latest gadget the E-2D, which I highly doubt, I think E-2D still need considered ground support as it’s designed to be AEWs, while in Sichuan remote mountainous area, I doubt such ground facility will be sufficient for KJ200- an AEWs.

Yes I know, but IMO the Quinling is an improved WS-9, whereas the standard WS-9 was already produced in China when the Quinling was only at the drawing board. Therefore – once again IMO – I was surprised that the Quinling was never called the WS-9A.

That’s another mystery to me: Some sources say the development was – as expected – heavily delayed my problems with production and only the Quinling was the final originally anticipated Spey-copy. Other sources – and here also the Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust say that around 300-400 engines of the standard WS-9 were already built up to large stocks, at a time when only few JH-7 actually flew.

And that’s the point: What changes were made to achieve this ??

:confused: Deino :confused:

Qinling for WS-9 is like Taihang for WS-10A, the qinling is the name for one mountain in north west China. Chinese aviation industries like to name their aviation engines after famous mountains in China. Further examples would be “Taishan” for WS-13 or “Tianshan” for WS-12 which would eventually power FC-1.

Furthermore, I don’t understand where you get your information of WS-9A from, in the last Zhuhai Aviation show, AVIC1 has already shown its roadmap for turboengine development in the coming years, see the chart below:

In the chart, there only mentions Qinling, which is WS-9, no any other slot for another WS-9A.

For the prolonged indigenization of Spey MK.202, that could run a long story, but basically it got something to do with the poor industrial infrastructures back in 1970-1980s then in China. So, initially, the R & R had to help build all the relevant production/tooling facilities that can support a turbo engine manufacturing, and introduction of modern quality systems. The low efficiency of the then leadership of Aviation industry also played a role. Anyway, the indigenization of Spey Mk202 indeed played a virtual role to milk an infant Aviation engine industries just recovering from the culture revolution.

The assembled kits from R & R were used to power JH-7, only 1 regiment of JH-7 is in service in PLANAF, and WS-9 powered JH-7A now spans several regiments both in PLANAF & PLAAF.

actually, it could also be one of the high new series aircrafts. The article didn’t say either way and the author just assumed KJ-2000.

…

1. In Hyperwarp provided report, it mentioned the airborne C & C post has to provide coordination for near 100 other aircrafts being active in the same area, considering many of them are actually low flying helos in a poor visibility mountainous area, I doubt any other smaller Y-8 series EW platforms have the Radar tracking & C & C as well as communication ability at the same time to coordinate so many planes.

2. KJ2000 is the maturest platform compared to other “High new” Y-8 series and KJ2000 has already taken part in many PLAAF & PLAN joint exercises while many Y-8 new faces are still in trail fly.

3. Another report in Hyper’s link has mentioned that the AWACS is from Wuxi city, a well known home base for KJ2000. There’s no report of any Y-8 EW planes other than KJ200 are deployed in Wuxi as well. and KJ200 is just less mature and capacity than its bigger brother

Now Sukhoi’s President Pogosyan has put the final nail on the coffin of the so called “Chinese has made pirated Su27” saying.

In an exclusive interview with Phoenix TV, Pogosyan confirmed Sukhoi has already sold the IP rights of Su27 to China in 1996. :rolleyes:So there’s never any violation of so called China illegally copied Su27, and he said J11B is NOT a copy of Su27SK.

The below is the video of interview with Sukhoi CEO Pogosyan. Those who understand Russian, please note his speak starting from 1’33”

http://itv.ifeng.com/vplay.aspx?id=14f834c3-4f16-4771-9248-bf36426a9003

I did not say the WS-10 is not a real engine i only said this If the WS-10 is better than the AL-31 why then China buys more AL-31 for the J-10? it means simply it is not a better engine than the AL-31 because it can not power the single engine J-10, the 117S already has been tested and is a better engine than the Al-31

…

So disappoint in you, thought you only got no clue about Chinese stuff, now it seems your love of Russian stuff only stays at surface.

If you think the Basic WS-10A boosts less thrust than the Basic AL31FN, then why Salyut needs to improve the basic AL31FN to AL31FN-M1 with increased thrust from 122.6kn to 132.4kn, which tops basic WS-10A’s thrust at slightly less than 130kn, in order to secure further order?

Furthermore, the WS-10 powered J-10 only made maiden flight in the second half of last year. Obviously it needs time for J-10 to adapt a new engine with increased thrust/different weight etc. Since Salyut has offered its best line of product so far to CAC, and CAC probably also counts improved WS-10A with FADEC to be used in its latest J-10 batches. It’s nature to place order for Salyut which has long committed to the J-10 project and shows sincerity in doing business, don’t forget, Salyut manufactures AL31F because of China, it modifies AL31FN to become M1/M2/M3 standards because of China’s need, not RAF gave it a solid order, although later, the RAF indeed gave Salyut its order for powering Su27SM.

For you info:

http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces/news/jdw/jdw060109_2_n.shtml

late 2005 China placed a USD300 million order for a second batch of AL-31FN engines; these are a derivative of the Su-27’s AL-31F for single-engine aircraft, with a lower positioning of the gearbox. At first, it was believed the contract was for the same engines as in the first batch of 54 units supplied in 2001-02 and installed into development prototypes and initial production J-10s. However, AL-31FN-maker Moscow Machine Production Plant (MMPP) Salyut in December 2005 revealed the order to be for the AL-31FN M1, which is claimed to be a new AL-31FN production standard.

The company’s general manager, Yuri Eliseyev, said the new engine was purposely developed for what he referred to as the “Chinese Super-10 fighter”. Four such engines have been seen assembled at MMPP Salyut’s Moscow production site. One of these has been demonstrated undergoing fire testing, during which its swivel nozzle was deflected up/down and sideways at full power and reheated thrust.

However, J-10 is on the way to be developed into a series products, it’s totally unsurprised to see various J-10 models being powered by either AL31FN or WS-10a just like Falcon being powered by either F110 or F100.