HKhan – Care to point out the names of people who said that it WILL be approved within a specific timeframe? I stuck my neck out and said what I said with certainty. No one else here did.

What timeframe ? What dates ? What confirmation ?

Pakistan will agree to allow its airspace and territory against an attack on Iran ? 😀

Pakistan will send its centrifuges to UN on U.S.’s request ? 😀

Wait till Iran is bombed from the East ? 😀

Golden Arrow, wake up from your Bollywood dreams, it was obvious, reiterated a zillion times Pakistan would get F-16’s. Be a man and accept you were lying about your Congress Sources. Remember what I told you when I first joined this forum, “Pakistan will not allow an attack over a peaceful country like Iran from its territory”. You mocked at my statement , now look how pathetic you sound. The govt. of Pakistan has made it officially clear to the US and your sorry ***,no attack on Iran will be supported by Pakistan.

Then you said that Pakistan sent centrifuges to UN on US request in return for F-16’s. And again you received a slap on your face when it appeared Pakistan sent old , outdated centrifuges to UN on Iran’s request.

What do you think this is ? You think you’re the hero of some Bollywood “pikchurr” and whatever you will predict will happen and whatever you will lie about will be accepted ?

Pa ji, mard bano, chori kiththi hai, khul ke kaho chori kiththi hai……Accept your mistakes.

VikasRehman,

There are known engine license issues and in this context if I ask if an inlet size increase means engine change – is that a wild conclusion?

WE will know sooner or later, I guess.

A lot of our PAF fans feel that this is Pakdef and no questions should be entertained. Unfortunately, that is not the case. 😉

Also about Pakistan’s contribution to FC-1, people seem to think a genuine question is flaming. Now UAE for instance had used its past experiences to ask Lockeed Martin for making a super-duper version of F-16 – Blk 60. Similarly, TAI of Turkey manufactures F-16 under license and I believe incoroporated some minor changes for both Turkish and Egyptian orders. Does this mean they are “joint” production. From what we can see so far, China has been very generous in making a fighter for Pakistan thanks to its close alliance. My buddy from work has 2 choppers – custom built Harleys. He is an outdoor freak and gave orders to incorporate some cool ideas in the bikes, but a local chopper garage built them. Does this mean he is co-producing HArleys? :rolleyes: But Pak guys seem to be thumping chests without any substance behind it. CAll it flame or whatever but fact is fact.

Still waiting that you admit you were lying about your congress sources and other BS related to it. This is not Bharat Ratkshack where you can fantasize of you having links in US congress or G. W Bush living next door and ordering choppers.

Be a man, admit your mistakes.

No attack on Iran from Pakistani territory. Old, outdated Centrifuges sent to UN (not US) on Iran’s request.

Waiting…….I have all quotes by you regarding this issue form February to March. 🙂

Pakistan’s Long Range Ballistic Missiles: A View From IDEAS 2004

by Richard Fisher, Jr.
Published on November 1st, 2004
ARMS SHOW REPORTS

The Strategic Forces Command did not entertain questions about these missiles, but did offer a video that both summarized previously released missile test footage and provided new information.

Pakistan’s Missile Progress

The Pakistan Army Strategic Forces Command has used the all of the IDEAS shows to display its nuclear capable missiles. The 2004 IDEAS show offered the only opportunity this year for Pakistan to publicly display its nuclear-capable missiles, as their appearance had been cancelled for the usual May military parade due to security concerns. This was also the first time for Pakistan to display its Ghaznavi short-range ballistic missile (SRBM). The solid-fueled Ghaznavi, and longer range Shaheen 1 and Shaheen 2 missiles are all widely reported to be based on Chinese missiles or Chinese missile technology. The Ghauri is widely reported to be based on the North Korean liquid-fueled Nodong missile. The Strategic Forces Command did not entertain questions about these missiles, but did offer a useful video which provided some new information, while also gathering together previously released missile test footage.

The most useful new data point offered by the video was that the Chinese-source missiles were capable of very high accuracy. Inasmuch Chinese sources have disclosed to the author in the mid-1990s their seeking to develop terminal guidance and satellite navigation assisted guidance system for its short to medium range missiles, it would follow that such technologies have been transferred to Pakistan. If Pakistan’s missiles are so equipped, that would raise the prospect of their not requiring nuclear warheads to achieve “strategic” results against military targets. While the prospect of non-nuclear options may be slightly comforting to some, this capability may also increase the temptation to use these missiles inasmuch as there might be a diminished the chance of nuclear retaliation.

Pakistan’s largest and most capable ballistic missile is the two-stage Shaheen 2, or Hatf 6, reported by the U.S. intelligence community to have been developed with China’s assistance. To date, this missile has no publicly identified counterpart in the Chinese missile arsenal, but one possibility might be the DF-25, a reported two-stage 1,700-2,500km range solid-fuel missile. Revealed during the 2000 Republic Day parade, it was not launched for the first time until March 9, 2004. Before that it had been displayed with two sets of guidance fins for each stage. But the missile tested in March, and the one displayed at IDEAS, had no fins at the second stage. Pakistani placards stated its range is 2,000km, but other sources note that this might be extended to 2,500km with a lighter warhead.[5] While published sources give this missile an accuracy measured in circular error probability (CEP) of 350m,[6] a Pakistani video claims it is capable of “surgical precision.” This may indicate that it incorporates a warhead post-separation correction system and/or a satellite navigation update system, which may indicate a CEP of much less than 300m. Reports also indicate there may be a 4,000km range Shaheen 3 in development that would also serve as a space launch vehicle.[7]

Shaheen 2 : Pakistan’s largest and most capable ballistic missile is the two-stage Shaheen 2, or Hatf 6. At this point it has no known counterpart in the Chinese missile arsenal, but is reported by the U.S. intelligence community to have been assisted by China.(To date, this missile has no publicly identified counterpart in the Chinese missile arsenal, but one possibility might be the DF-25, a reported two-stage 1,700-2,500km range solid-fuel missile.)The IDEAS show very likely featured an operational example of this missile, which was only launched for the first time on March 9, 2004. This missile was also displayed without the second-stage guidance fins, which had been a feature on this missile first being displayed in 2000. Pakistani placards stated its range is 2,000km, but other sources note that this might be extended to 2,500km with a lighter warhead. While published sources give this missile accuracy measured in circular error probability (CEP) of 300m, a Pakistani video claims it is capable of “surgical precision.” This may indicate that this missile incorporates a satellite navigation update system, which may indicate a CEP much less than 300m. . Reports also indicate there may be a 4,000km range Shaheen 3 in development that would also serve as a space launch vehicle.

Shaheen 2

Range : 2000-2500km
Weight : 15,000kg
Re-entry vehicle Weight: 1,000kg
Warheads: Nuclear, HE
Tech Source : China

Shaheen 1 First revealed in 1999, the Shaheen 1, or Hatf 4, also has no known Chinese equivalent, but its Chinese origins are more apparent than the Shaheen 2. Its nose section is very clearly a copy of that seen on the Chinese DF-11 Mod 1 missile first revealed in their October 1999 military parade. But the Shaheen 1 is longer than the DF-11 Mod 1 and at 750km, very likely has a longer range. The warhead stage has what a Pakistani video calls a “post-separation attitude correction system,” meaning that the Shaheen-1 is capable of high accuracy and some degree of maneuvering to evade missile defenses. In addition, both the Shaheen I and its relation, the Ghaznavi, employ stealthy warhead shaping to delay detection and complicate targeting. This very likely refers to technology was first developed for the DF-15 SRBM. It consists of small thrusters which can adjust the warhead trajectory for the purpose of obtaining greater accuracy or for out-foxing early U.S. Patriot PAC-2 missile interceptors.

Shaheen 1

Range: 750km
Weight: 9,500kg
Warhead Weight: 850kg
Warheads: Nuclear, HE
Tech Source: China

Photo: RD Fisher

Ghaznavi The latest missile to be adopted by Pakistan is their Ghaznavi, or Hatf 3. It was formally adopted by the Strategic Forces Command on February 22, 2004. This missile appears to be an exact copy of the latest version of the DF-11 Mod 2. Like more recent versions of the Chinese missile, the Ghaznavi employs an “aerospike” on tip of the nose cone. This serves to push away air, creating less aerodynamic drag for the remainder of the missile. This is also useful for extending the range of the missile if it employed a “depressed trajectory” or low altitude flight profile, where denser air would create more drag. The DF-11 Mod 2 is also suspected of using a “depressed trajectory” in order to evade missile defenses. A Pakistani video also notes this missile employs a “post separation attitude correction system” to ensure high warhead accuracy. The missile also features flat antenna arrays near the warhead stage, all indications that it employs highly accurate satellite navigation assisted guidance systems. And like the DF-11 Mod 1, the Ghaznavi very likely employs a range of warheads, to include nuclear, high explosives, cluster munitions, and thermobaric warheads.

Ghaznavi

Range: 290km
Weight: 5,256kg
Warheads: Nuclear, HE, Cluster, Thermobaric, Radio Frequency
Tech Source: China

Photo: RD Fisher

Ghauri Also on display was the Ghauri, or Hatf 5, widely reported to be based on North Korea’s Nodong liquid fueled missile. It has a range of 1,500km which it can cover in about 10 minutes. It is said to be armed with nuclear and high explosive warheads. There are reports of a Ghauri 3 in development, a two-stage liquid fuel missile with a range of 3,500km. This program may benefit from North Korea’s Russian technology derived Makeyev R-27-based MRBMs.

Ghauri

Range: 1,500km
Weight: 15,852kg
Warhead Weight: 900kg
Warheads: Nuclear, HE
Tech Source: North Korea

Photo : RD Fisher

High Accuracy

One useful new data point was that the Chinese-source missiles were capable of very high accuracy. Published reports have noted that Pakistan’s Shaheen 1, Shaheen 2 and Ghaznavi missiles may have a post-separation booster system to provide course corrections to improve accuracy, or maneuver capability for evading missile defenses. The video confirmed that there is such a system. It was at the Zhuhai Airshow in 1996 that a Chinese source inadvertently disclosed that China was developing a terminal and satellite-navigation-assisted guidance system for its short- to medium-range missiles. The PLA also developed a post-separation warhead attitude correction system for its DF-15 short-range missile. This consists of small thrusters that can adjust the warhead trajectory for greater accuracy or for out-foxing early U.S. Patriot PAC-2 interceptors. This system very likely is also on the DF-11 Mod 1 SRBM.

Shaheen 2 Warhead Stage: May use a post-separation course correction system that enables very high accuracy.

Photo: RD Fisher

If Pakistan’s missiles are so equipped, the prospect of their not requiring nuclear warheads to achieve “strategic” results against military targets is more likely. While this might be slightly comforting to some, the capability might also increase the temptation to use such missiles, inasmuch as Pakistani leaders might view their use as carrying a diminished risk of Indian nuclear retaliation.

Possible antennae on a Shaheen-1 warhead stage:The black patches near the small stabilizing fins may be antennae intended to service very accurate satellite navigation systems.

Photo: RD Fisher

However, such a terminal guidance capability would also require a sophisticated targeting system capable of providing real-time image or electronic target location data to missile commanders. Pakistan will soon have short-range unmanned reconnaissance aircraft capable of supplying such data. Pakistan can be assumed to be a consumer of commercially available high-resolution satellite imagery. And when China soon launches its constellation of 1-meter or better resolution Russian-influenced electro-optical and radar image satellites, it is a safe assumption that Pakistan will gain useful access to their data. The irony here is that Indian space officials have disclosed that China had offered India the opportunity to invest in this satellite constellation.[3] India wisely refused, because its investment might have amounted to a “subsidy” benefiting China’s and Pakistan’s missile targeting capabilities.

China’s Future HJ-1 and HJ-1C reconnaissance satellites: These Russian influenced satellites are due to be launched soon, and could provide Pakistan with all-weather 1-meter imagery. India wisely chose not to participate in this program.

Photo: RD Fisher

Warheads

All of the SRBMs and MRBMs on display at IDEAS were said to be capable of carrying nuclear and non-nuclear warheads. Pakistan’s capability to build small plutonium warheads is widely reported to have developed thanks to the assistance of the PRC. China is very likely the source for a range of non-nuclear warheads for the Shaheen 2, Shaheen 1 and Ghaznavi missiles. For its DF-11 Mod 1 SRBM, China is reported to have developed high-explosive cluster warheads, which use a large number of small warheads for attacking soft targets, and thermobaric warheads, which destroy by producing fantastic heat and pressure. And according to a U.S. source, Pakistan is a suspected recipient for new Chinese radio-frequency (RF) missile warheads.[4] These can produce a large electromagnetic pulse via a conventional explosion and are used to attack electronic infrastructure.

Links :

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.47/pub_detail.asp

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.48/pub_detail.asp

On a personal note, i would love to see F-16’s and F-18’s in IAF service.

India v Pakistan, 3rd Test, Bangalore, 5th day

The silence of Pakistan’s victory

Rahul Bhattacharya

March 28, 2005

http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2005/MAR/217236_INDPAK2004-05_28MAR2005.html

As India slide to defeat, the silence that greets Pakistan’s efforts borders on the graceless © Getty Images

The sustained silence that greeted Pakistan’s extraordinary victory today was the lowest point of a superb Test series. Given how a year ago applause had poured in for a dramatic last-ball victory by the Indians at Karachi, an applause that then resonated for the rest of the tour, Bangalore was an embarrassment.

This is not to say that applause must beget applause. As much would be gratuitous. Indeed, there is a minor consolation in that India-Pakistan cricket is assuming an air of normalcy, able to stand by itself as a sporting encounter. Yet if the first step towards that normalcy includes the inability to recognize the worth of the opponent’s performance, then there is reason to worry. Bangalore must count as the most graceless performance by an Indian crowd since the racist barbs which were thrown at the West Indians by Bombayites two seasons ago.

Pakistan played stirring cricket today, and have done all series, notwithstanding the last day at Calcutta. They came a young and fragile team and that from a tour of Australia. Plain to the eye they worked phenomenally hard and shed themselves of fear. Inzamam and his exquisite hundred from 7 for 2 in the opening hour; Sami and his long pouty spells of short and fast bowling; Afridi, batting, bowling and fielding like a bomb on speed; Kaneria and his relentless scatter-limbed twirling, and of course, Younis Khan, who completed one of cricket’s great turnarounds from Mohali, where he could not take guard without dropping a catch or losing his wicket…. Pakistan were inspiring at Bangalore. Considering the situation at lunch yesterday, they made a match out of nothing. They deserved a hand.

It should be perhaps spelt out here that there was no viciousness on view. Rather it was an indifference, one which has been evident over the last few days. Kaneria, among the performers of the series, regularly patrolled the boundary in front of the stand I have watched from, and not once did he receive appreciation at the end of a successful over or spell. Afridi was met with similar apathy. Words directed at them, if any, were not flattering. The contrast when an Indian extra walked by with a crate of drinks was embarrassing. Rarely was a Pakistani boundary or an Indian wicket, and there were enough of both, clapped on.

At the presentation ceremony fifteen minutes after the finish today, modest applause was handed out to Inzamam and Younis Khan. Again, the reception was, what, twenty times smaller than the boos for Ganguly and the cheers for Sehwag. Simply, you would think that this Test match was being played by one team. Well, it almost was, and that team was not India.

Granted that the Indians played pathetic cricket on the day, and the shock of their supporters is understandable. But just as there was a leaf to be taken out of Pakistan’s marvellous performance by the Indian cricket team, so should there be one for the Indian spectators from their counterparts’. This insularity is regressive and terribly disturbing.

Rahul Bhattacharya is contributing editor of Wisden Asia Cricket and author of Pundits from Pakistan, a recently released book on India’s tour of Pakistan last year. To buy the book, click here.

© Cricinfo

F-16’s for Pakistan , despite all the hue and cry from the East.

Pakistan beats India in the third and final test match to level the series.

Three cheers to this young , inexperienced Pak team.

What a week this has been.