If, you have one available…………Further, just because the current plan is for “X” amounts of Modules. Does not mean more could or would not be ordered…………..
BTW One Mothership which in far more capable and flexible. It would also be far cheaper than one AE. AO, or AOR……….
Man, you guys need to think out of the box some times. As most major advancements. Hardly, happen with such conservative attitudes…..
Respecfully:cool:
The idea of the mission modules is that you can role switch the ships, being able to fullfill a variety of roles with a relatively small number of ships (see Stanflex 300 Flyvevisken). The idea is not to have several weapons/sensor loads avialable for each ship, that would be a waste as at any given time the ship could use only one load.
While I gather than LCS would swap mission modules in port, it doesn’t say it has to be a large, well equiped port facility or even a military port. Just a place were the LCS can tie up and lie undisturbed for a few hours and that has a crane. Containers and mission module elements helicoptered to the exchange position, or shipped by naval transport (e.g. a fast cat), from the nearest main point of deployment, which may be a larger port or forward depot but also an airfield (C5/C17 fly in). A lot more places might qualify as a suitable port than we seem to think here.
VISION
• Three or more LCS Platforms Integrated into and supporting the Carrier
Battle Group or Expeditionary Strike Group
• Each LCS controlling a number of Unmanned Vehicles tailored to specific
mission at hand. Unmanned Vehicles deploying/monitoring sensors …
analyzing data or acting as data link to LCS.
• Rapidly reconfigurable LCS platforms to meet changing scenarios via these
Enablers:
-Common Launch & Recovery Systems,
-Common Control Systems, and
-Common Technical Architectures
• All Sensors, Weapons, Datalinks, Information Networks, and Platforms
operating as part of ForceNet distributed network system.
• Like an Aircraft Carrier, the LCS Platform will change little over its
lifetime … capability improvements will be accomplished via upgrades to the
LCS Mission modules … the Airwing of this analogy.
http://www.minwara.org/Meetings/2003_08/Minwara-PEO%20LMW%20slides.pdf
From DefenseNews
Posted 08/29/07 19:54
First LCS Mission Package Ready For Delivery
By CHRISTOPHER P. CAVASA significant milestone in the U.S. Navy’s Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) program is set to take place in mid-September with delivery of the first mission module package.
Although the module — configured for mine warfare — still lacks a ship to go aboard, Navy officials noted the various systems that make up the module are useable even without the LCS.
“We do not necessarily need an LCS to deploy these systems,” Jim Thomsen, Program Executive Officer for Mine and Littoral Warfare at Naval Sea Systems Command (NAVSEA), said Aug. 29 at a press briefing at the Washington Navy Yard.
“Wherever a helicopter could land, whether it be a large-deck [amphibious ship], a carrier or a pier or shore facility, we could deploy this mine warfare capability,” he said.
Thomson noted that other systems such as the Remote Multi-Mission Vehicle also can be used outside the LCS program, and pointed out that six Arleigh Burke-class destroyers are configured to operate the system. One of those destroyers, the Bainbridge, is currently carrying the system on a deployment, he said.
The flexibility of the mission module — composed of multiple vehicles, platforms and systems, most transportable inside commercial-sized shipping containers or mounted on a MH-60 helicopter or unmanned vehicle — is an inherent advantage of the concept, officials said.
“That’s the beauty of the modular approach,” said Capt. Mike Good, LCS Mission Module Program Manager. “It’s in a container, so if I have a flight deck, which could be a helipad in a port, we can operate a significant amount of these systems.
“And the fleet is starting to see that,” he added. “As they see what’s possible they’re really thinking through how else I could employ this capability. There are lots of options here.”
Those options might be explored earlier than the Navy had planned. Delivery of the first mission module was intended to coincide with the arrival of the first LCS, originally planned for spring 2007. But the building effort has suffered a series of construction problems, delays and cost overruns, and delivery of the first Lockheed Martin ship, Freedom, now is not expected until sometime in the spring of 2008.
That’s also a few months before the first ship of the competing General Dynamics design, Independence, is to be presented to the fleet — unless it too falls further behind schedule.
But the program to develop and field the initial mission modules so far has not suffered the delays affecting the first ship. Navy program managers expressed confidence that their first module will do what it’s intended to do.
The goal of the mine package “is to get the sailor out of the minefield,” said mine warfare program manager Gary Humes. “With this set of systems, we’ve been able to accomplish that goal.”
The “spiral alpha” package won’t include all the goodies it’s intended to eventually include, but it still will provide a significant capability. Among the components are the AQS-20A mine-hunting sonar, an Airborne Laser Mine Detection System and an Unmanned Surface Sweep system, along with a developmental unmanned surface craft.
Among the major systems not yet ready for the mine module are the Rapid Airborne Mine Clearance System (RAMICS) 30mm mine-killing gun, the Organic Air and Surface Influence Sweep (OASIS) and the Coastal Battlefield Reconnaissance and Analysis (COBRA) sensor system for the MQ-8B Fire Scout unmanned aerial vehicle.
OASIS and COBRA should be ready for the third mine package scheduled for delivery in 2010, the officials said, while RAMICS is scheduled for delivery with the fourth package in 2011, the officials said.
The mine package is the first of three different warfare packages being developed by NAVSEA. The first Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) package is due for delivery in early 2008, with the first Surface Warfare package scheduled for mid-2008.
A total of 64 mission packages are planned for 55 LCS ships in the Navy’s shipbuilding program. Sixteen of the packages are for ASW, while the service intends to buy 24 each of the mine and surface packages.
The mine package is possibly the most complex of the three packages, with more vehicles and moving parts than the other two. That complexity is reflected in the price: $68 million apiece for the mine module, $43 million for the ASW package, and nearly $17 million for the surface module.
Training of the first two crews to operate the modules is about 70 percent complete, Good said. Without an LCS to practice on, Good was asked if the Navy was looking at other platforms to take the mission module to sea in advance of the first ship’s delivery. Several options were being examined, he said, including the Sea Fighter, an experimental ship developed by the Office of Naval Research that now is at the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Panama City, Fla. Sea Fighter, Good said, could be “an opportunity” to get in some sea training with the module.
The official rollout of the mine warfare package is to take place Sept. 14 at Panama City.
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/08/defense_lcsmodules_070829/
Northrop Grumman Supports First Littoral Combat Ship Mission Package Delivery to Navy
BETHPAGE, N.Y., Sept. 13, 2007 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) — Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:NOC) and the U.S. Navy’s Naval Sea Systems Command, along with members of the government-contractor team, will celebrate the delivery of the first mission package for the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) at ceremonies tomorrow in Panama City, Fla. This first package is for the mine warfare mission, and is one of the three initial warfare packages being developed for the LCS.
Mission packages allow the LCS the flexibility to support three mission areas — mine, warfare, anti-submarine warfare and surface warfare. Everything needed for a specific mission — from weapons to sensor systems to control centers to air vehicles to spares — is containerized and ready for installation and activation aboard any LCS.
This modular approach allows an LCS to pull into port, swap out mission packages and redeploy with a combat system that is tailored for the mission at hand and fully integrated into the Navy’s battle management grid.
Northrop Grumman’s LCS Mission Package Integrator (MPI) team is working with the Navy Laboratories to deliver the first anti-submarine and surface warfare packages in 2008 and 2009.
Dr. Delores M. Etter, assistant secretary of the Navy for Research, Development and Acquisition, will lead the Navy delegation for the event. Scott Seymour, corporate vice president and sector president of Northrop Grumman’s Integrated Systems sector, will be the senior company official at the ceremony.
“Our focus has been to support the milestones of our customer,” said Seymour. “That’s of paramount importance in times when great demands are being placed upon the military’s budget and great expectations are held by the customer for each contractor. We believe we’re delivering on our promise to build a foundation of disciplined systems engineering for mobile, modular, modern systems for the integrated, flexible Navy fighting force.”
Northrop Grumman is the Navy’s LCS MPI, responsible for delivering high performance, modular, fully integrated weapons packages. The company’s LCS MPI team supports the Navy laboratories that are developing and delivering the first several prototypes. Northrop Grumman ensures that the mission package components, selected by the Navy and produced by companies across the nation, work together as a “plug-and-fight” package. The company also ensures that the components are integrated seamlessly with the systems within each LCS and with the greater Navy network in which the LCS functions.
A mission package integrates specialized manned and unmanned systems that must operate in a combination of air, surface, and subsurface domains. They comprise warfighting capabilities (e.g. mine hunting systems, maritime security systems) along with ISO transportation containers, mission package support equipment, multi-vehicle control systems, the mission computing environment, and the operators. All mission packages will have at least one Fire Scout unmanned vehicle, a Northrop Grumman Integrated Systems product.
The mission package components are housed within a set of standard ISO containers called Twenty Equivalent Units (TEU) — boxes 20 feet long, 8 feet wide and 8 feet tall. There are nine TEUs in the mine countermeasures package. The ISO standardization ensures compatible, worldwide inter-modal transportation capability that allows containers to be shipped to staging areas around the world.
The mission packages are developed by the Navy’s Mission Modules program office (PMS 420), part of the Program Executive Office – Littoral Mine Warfare. Another part of that office, the Navy’s Mine Warfare program office (PMS 495), provides mine warfare systems and modules including the AN/WLD-1 Remote Minehunting System; the AN/AQS-20A Sonar Mine Detecting Set; and the Airborne Laser Mine Detection System (ALMDS), among other systems.
ALMDS, which was developed Northrop Grumman, is one of its newest mine warfare components. ALMDS is helicopter-mounted and deployed forward of the fleet to survey the ocean for potential mine threats. The ALMDS Light Detection and Ranging Sensor pod can be easily moved from its mission package container and attached to the port side of an MH-60S helicopter. The sensor’s laser provides wide-area coverage for the detection and localization of near-surface and moored mines in the littoral region. In flight, the laser makes a wide-swath sweep (like a push broom) through the water, collecting 3-D imagery of the water volume.
Future mission packages will include Northrop Grumman’s Rapid Airborne Mine Clearance System (RAMICS) and Coastal Battlefield Reconnaissance and Analysis (COBRA) system.
Northrop Grumman Corporation is a $30 billion global defense and technology company whose 120,000 employees provide innovative systems, products, and solutions in information and services, electronics, aerospace and shipbuilding to government and commercial customers worldwide.
http://www.irconnect.com/noc/pages/news_printer.html?d=126591&print=1
This is all very similar to the Danish Stanflex concept, which allows for fullfullment of different missions with fewer hulls. But clearly not intended for role-swapping at sea! No mothership therefor.
The Best Locations for LCS Homeports and Mission Package Installation Sites.
Having identified operations in which LCSs would be involved and ways in which the vessels would be used, we conducted our transportation computer simulations. We chose three homeport locations (Norfolk, San Diego, and Japan) and two mission package installation sites (Singapore and Bahrain) that allowed LCSs equipped with appropriate mission packages to respond to scenarios in the least amount of closure time.
http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9301/index1.html
See also:
“Littoral Combat Ships: Relating Performance to Mission Package Inventories, Homeports, and Installation Sites”
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG528/
Full report (pdf):
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/2007/RAND_MG528.pdf
Mission module info:
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-new-littoral-combat-ships-updated-01343/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ng-gets-159m-littoral-combat-ship-mission-package-integration-contract-01723/
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/lcs-design.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/lcs-mods.htm
Basicly anywhere the LCS’s want to go they can arrive no sooner then a conventional ship. They do have an advantage once on station, but that is traded off by the increased dependence upon tankers to maintain that advantage. Of course once you factor in helicopters, what do you need the additional speed for?
You arrive on station, outside the opponent’s reach. Then, to do your thing, you move in and out of the danger zone quickly. LCS will support mine warfare, anti-submarine warfare and anti-surface boat modules. Mine warfare birngs you close to shore. So will ASW/ASuW, provided you’re hunting coastal subs and FACs (which is what most smaller navies have).
Some more questions:
When’s the first P17 (Shivalik) actually being commissioned – will she make the planned commissioning in May 2009?
When is the first of the batch II Talwars being delivered (launch expected in 2009)?
How’s the first P28 ASW-corvette coming along (laid down 20 Nov 2006)?
BRAZIL and CHINA NAVIES cooperate:
original text in Portuguese, interview with Brazilian defense minister here:
http://www.defesanet.com.br/md1/jobim_11.htminteresting part:
free google translation:
Babelfish translation (slightly different)
Defesa@Net – a series of military approaches with China Has. How it sees these approaches to you with China in the scope of the Ministry of the Defense?
Min Jobim – the approach with China more is come back toward the Navy. They (the Chinese) want that the Navy of Brazil is the linking element for the creation of the Chinese Navy. China does not have a navy. Also we go to bring Chinese officers for here. They will make period of training. Logical that they will have to learn Portuguese.They will make period of training in the São Paulo aircraft carrier. The Chinese already are acquiring aircraft carrier for projection of being able in the region, that is a completely different situation of ours. I am going to China between September or October.
Period of training = stage = ‘internship’
The only reason why a modern state cannot establish an empire is because of the emphasis on values. When the British committed atrocities in South Africa and India the world hardly cared, but when America uses torture against terrorism suspects everyone cares and there is a big issue.
‘Minor’ difference in communications and spread of information in these periods? When the British committed atrocities in South Africa and India did the world know? Same with any of the old colonial powers: unlike today, the common man mostly was totally unaware and had little access to information.
I am sorry but India is evolving into a global power with plans to have a blue water Navy. Something like the Aegis can defend key assets aboard as well. 🙂
“Global power” … .
“plans to have a blue water navy” … India already has considerable blue water capability today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-water_navy#Examples_of_operating_blue-water_navies
Technically, a ‘blue water’ navy is taken as one able to operate over 200 miles (320 kilometres) from shore, in other words long range, deep water, oceanic maritime projection bringing with it seapower.
Politically, a ‘blue water’ navy is long range extension of the state’s presence.
I’m saying that the idea of preservation is illogical. They can do all the preservation and study they need when it’s not in the dry dock. Clearly, they had no problem preserving it. So, either they are doing this as a grand illusion or they are trying to put this back in service. I’m just a little disappointed that you have this view, since I think you’ve followed Chinese naval shipbuilding for a while now.
What view? I only said I’m not ruling anything out. I did not say I believe scenario X or Y to be the case. Meanwhile, is there anyone here that can say with any degree of certainty what work has been done on Varyag to date, or is being done? I think not. So unless something more solid emerges, I’m not ruling anything out. And that’s perfectly logical.
I mean, sure they could be doing it for grand deception, that’s a possibility. But other than that, the only other possibility is they are trying to do things to put it back in service. They are not going to do it just for mere preservation. Why would you preserve something that you are not going to use? That has no logic. And besides, I’m pretty sure you’ve followed Chinese shipbuilding (if you are who I think you are on CDF), so you should have an idea of their shipbuilding process.
Study is a use for which one would possibly want to preserve the ship (not forever, but untill such time as no new insights can be gained without physically taking her apart).
Let me rephrase: untill there is a clearer insight into what work was/is actually done on her (not just now, in dock, but overall), I’m not going to assume anything about her future beyond that there are different possible scenarios and that these scenarios differ in their likelihood, with some scenarios being more likely than others.
I actually don’t put much hope in Varyag, but it’s clear that some serious work is done here that’s not just the exterior. Are you actually trying to say that they put it in the dry dock for just studying purposes?
There have been no exterior changes, that”s for sure. What’s going on inside is anybody’s guess (unless of course you have some good, verifiable source on that). I’m keeping all options open. That includes mere preservation and the possibility that it is all a grand deception.
Have to agree with Scooter…..This kind of work makes no sense unless they are looking to putting her back into some sort of service.
Ah, but therein lies the rub, doesn’t it. So far, the only visible work on the ship has been exterior (paint, mostly). What work is known (“beyond reasonable doubt” > i.e. visible or if not visible then confirmed from multiple independent sources) to have been performed on Varyag?
Put differently, even if she is not to be inducted into service and used for study purposes only, she would still require such work in order to be preserved.
Its very clear the ex-Varyag is going to return to service with the PLAN. Its just a question of time………IMO
Nothing is clear in this case. Least of all how the critical propulsion issue was/will be solved.
I could be wrong on this, but I don’t think they had nearly this much before. And even if they did, it was very recently.
They probably put everything that had to go with Varyag on board and moved it along with her.
LA SPEZIA, Italy – The Iraqi Navy has been conducting training over the last several months to prepare for the maiden voyage of the Fatah, Patrol Ship 701
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=26411&Itemid=128
She looks similar to the Minerva class corvette
