I don’t think that russian navy has enemies like japanease smuglers but the Japan’s navy. This country wants some russian islands and if you look their navy is much more advanced than any western navy except USN. Just look the “Kongo II” DDG 174.

Larger, yes. More advanced than e.g. Royal Navy, Spanish navy, Italian navy… hardly.

The 20380 hasn’t any AAW even point protection missile system except one KADS-N-1 CIWS.

It can easily be fitted with a small VL system with 12km range en lieu of 3km/8km Kashtan gun-missile system (in fact, this is what the promotional animation showns)

Why you love so much the word “frigate” and you hate the word “cruiser”?

BUDGETPOLITICS!

The reason of maintaining such a huge navy for Japs is NOT North Korea’s acient missiles and their 1950’s technology of army. North Korean missiles could be shout down even with ESSM, not SM-3. North Korea is NOT a threat for Japan. China has no serious problems with Japan, so Japs even now considers Russia as possible future enemy.

The main reason for a big navy for japan is that as an island nation it is totally dependent on sea lanes of communication (oil in, products out)

Small frigates and corvettes will save Russia?
After the end of their life who will replace “SLAVAS” and “KIROVS”? Project 21630 gun boats?lol The ugly project 20380 “corvrtte”? I think that the frigate 22350 will be a failure as NOVIK before. Which ship will carry long range SAMs? The 22350 frigate of 4000t? The 20380 corvette of 2000t? Or the gunboat Astracan? Admiral Masorin said that Russia at the future will develop aircraft carriers. “We need 4 of them not 12 as USN” Who will escord them? The gun boats or your LOVELY frigates? RUSSIA is not USA but also RUSSIA is not BALTIC state. Needs Blue water navy as well as patrol boats, not at the numbers that USN navy has but they need them. There is no other solution. Furthermore Putin’s Russia is NOT like was at Yieltsin times. Has enough money and the oil prices will help more the situation.

Who says Russia needs Slava’s and Kirovs in the future? For what? As for protecting carriers, I don’t see battle cruisers like them in navies with carriers. Smaller ships may do just fine. But some AAW specialist vessel will be needed.

Project 22350 is 4500 tons, maybe more. I don’t think project 20380 is ugly at all. You forgot about designs like the revised “Udaloy III”and a few other low cost development options for the russian navy. Those are 8000tns.

Anyway, At this point in time, they are lucky to get ANY new ships. Small ships will mean survival. Eventually, as economics and budget allow, there will be larger ships again. But not for some time. In the meantime, Russian will make do with current large ships (untill worn out) and more effective and economic new small ships. Russia is predominantly a land empire and, coastal border patrol aside, mostly needs some kind of fleet in order allow its SSBN to enter and leave port and launch safely.

At least in my defense I would say “Iran” started it! PLEASE, for Iran copy a 40 year old American Design add twin tails and tell the world how advance it is! Further, they have the nerve to call it a F/A-18 type aircraft! Personally, I try to keep politics out of the discussion. Yet, with the BS coming out of Iran I just couldn’t help myself……………Sorry, I apologize to any member offended my my comments. :p

We can assume most folks here are able to distinguish between propaganda and fact, can’t we?

Fact: they’re now able to (re)design and produce a combat jet at home
Fact: with a high probability, performance of the new jet will be better than that of Iran’s original F5s (if not for the exterior/structural changes then because of under the skin changes and different systems)
Fact: they can now not only replace their ageing F5s with something newer and better, but also keep up or expand the number of frontline combat jets without having to resort to expensive imports of high end foreign jets.

Check these pages
http://acig.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3563&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Relevant pics on pages 2, 12 and 14

Most key systems is a bit of an exaggeration. In addition to the license-built F404, the FBW system is BAE/LockMart according to airforce-technology and that’s it. And the weapons is just a matter of what the customer wants to plug on the aircraft anyway. (I’m sure you can buy a Rafale with AMRAAMs and Sidewinders if you want.)

Well, that’s the whole point, isn’t it. Both Rafale and Gripen are fully interoperable with US forces. They don’t share the complete logistics, but that’s a different matter. Leo 2 and M1A2 are interoperable too, but not identical from logistics point of view. Same for the Zeven Provincien, which was designed with interoperability with US as well as UK forces in mind.

Seems like they would have a stealthy turret for the 76mm OTO Mount? Also, what type of SAM System is planned for the ships?

No sam planned, no stealthy gun shield for now.

I would say, a quick and dirty – and hence poor cut and paste and no edit – job! Shoddy journalism.

Left service november 2004 Hr. Ms. Abraham van der Hulst
Entered service 16 december 2005 Chilean navy (Almirante Blanco Encalada FF 15).

Left service 3 februari 2006 Hr. Ms. Tjerk Hiddes. Will enter service april 2007 Chilean navy (Almirante Riveros FF 18).

Both have their hangar and flight deck enlarged so as to be ablt to operate one Cougar heli each.

On 22 december 2005 agreement reached between Dutch and Belgian DoDs concerning sale of 2 M-fregatten. It concerns Hr.Ms. Karel Doorman and Hr.Ms. Willem van der Zaan. Expected delivery to Belgium in 2007 and 2008. In Belgian service the ships will be named Leopold I (F930) en Louise-Marie (F931).

Further 2 M frigates available for sale, going to Portugal, are Hr. Ms. van Amstel and Hr. Ms. van Nes.

I am still waiting for a reply on why each refurbished P-3c costs $ 120 million. Did they make the engines out of gold??

Are multi-year costs for weapons, training, spares, maintenance etc included in the contract?