I’m gonna enquire tomorrow at Carlisle. There is a form on the website that you print and send off so i’ll do that tomorrow. Like a few people have said it’s all very well sitting back in your armchair or at your computer shouting the odds when another aircraft disappears into pieces of shrapnel because there was no help, so, do something to prevent it from happening. I don’t have all the time in the world but i’d be happy to give a couple of the rare days off that I get to helping to prevent another beautiful, historic airframe falling into the hands of the scrap men.
She’s in very good nick 823 as well. Flew up there with a friend not too long ago and she looked great next to the ex Saudi Lightning that they have.

If this thread has done nothing more than make you debate the sad end to this airframe and made just one person decide to join an aviation preservation group or museum, then it will not have all been in vain.

Well, I want to get involved with helping a Vulcan. Live on Merseyside, get one day off a week on a weekday, normally a friday, no weekends, and would be willing to give one, maybe two days a month. I was thinking maybe Carlisle (823), East Mids (575)??

For those of you who don’t know, this is ‘Mr Bateson’ on the right. Unfortunately, I only got the back of him cos at the time he was scuttling away like a cockroach after a volley of abuse from a few people, myself included…

without naming names, there are individuals on this forum that rant on about how futile it is to have aircraft outside! and that theres no point in bothering because they just end up as a dusty pile of corrosion. Its a wonder any aircraft in the UK get preserved with such defeatist attitudes. We dont have the luxury of enlighted local authorities as the yanks do, so why not just get on with it instead of whinning!

some aiframes are worse than others for wanting to return to nature, but its just a question of resource and effort. Im sure there are many aiframes outside that have suffered little over time with regular maintanance and care. No! I cant name them all off of the cuff, but as an example, take XR728 and XS904 at Brunty, 2-3 blokes for 6-7 hours every Saturday, and neither ship have deteriorated, both are in superb condition, very little has changed on them in 18 years of being outdoors. I wonder if the affore mentioned doom merchants actually work on airframes outside on a regular basis, or employ the various techniques available to stop aircraft from corroding outside?

391 is a pile of scrap because it was neglected by its owner! simple.
I hear a shout, “sea air” and all that flannel. What about the Vulcan at Southend????? Ive seen it inside out, and its superb, no corrosion! once again 2-3 blokes every Saturday for 6-7 hours, whom know exactly what they are doing!

If the airframe is looked after correctly from day one, it can survive quite happily outside. granted, if it stops getting attention, it will turn into a pile scrap very quickly out side, but lets remember such aiframes have taken 20-25 years to get like that with NO attention what so ever.

MJR

HERE HERE!! Someone talking some bloody sense! What about that Mr Burke? I’m sure you’ll have an argument for this…
:rolleyes:

XL391 – It’s not defeatist at all ! It’s acknowledging that aircraft that are outside need far more resources spending on them then aircraft that are inside.

Do they? My God, you’re RIGHT. Thankyou for pointing that out. Not every aircraft can be undercover, but, as you say, there is no point in outdoor preservation, it’s a waste of time and money, cos, in the end, they will be a pile of corroded mess. That carries maybe a tinge of defeatist element…

How do you propose to stop corrosion and the atmosphere affecting the airframe? If you have a principle that will stop rubber perishing- perspex going milky-magnesium castings turning into flaky powder and dissimilar metals acting as batteries

I don’t propose anything, there are people who know far more about the methods of preservation than me. You can’t stop corrosion, but you can slow it down. ‘391 lasted 23 years in the salty sea air of Blackpool with not a tap being done to her. I’m confident that, apart from a change of circumstances, the majority that are having the measures taken to slow down the corrosion process are still going to be here for a long while yet.

He is a business man – he had no desire to preserve her – purely it was an object to meet his own ends and whilst many find it hard to grasp that he could allow that to happen – he did.

I don’t find it hard to grasp at all, ‘Mr Bateson’ and this whole sorry saga just *******’s me off completely.

😡

Given the obvious knowledge of many of the contributors to this thread, can I ask the question; can a vulcan be moved by road ? (has it ever been done)I have always been under the impression that the “wings” don’t come off, if that is the case can it be cut near enough to the centerline that it may be transported by road ,and if so can it be reassembled again to take its own weight?

From the excellent Vulcans In Camera website here is XL318 being dismantled for her move to Hendon:

http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/XL318_dismantling/index.htm

Damien – Saying that Mr Bateson was ‘impossible’ to deal with doesn’t ring true.

Yes it does. He was when it came to poor old ‘391. The lads I know at the airport who offered to paint and floodlight her 10 years ago had first hand experience of this.

As for your comments XL391 – I suggest if you think every Vulcan in the U.K is in wonderful condition – take a road trip and inspect them . You might not be correct!

Where in the post above did I say they are all in excellent condition? I said the survivors are in better nick than ‘391 because they are recieving some care, which, for 23 years under his ‘care’ ‘391 did not. I know what condition the various Vulcans are like in this country, I’ve seen the majority of them.

Life time of Vulcan outdoors in sea air with no preservation effort whatsoever: 23 years.

Life time of a Vulcan that is looked after, and not in sea air: …insert figure here, but I think we can safely say an awful lot longer than the doomsayers reckon.

It is tiresome to have to repeat for the nth time that Bateson was totally impossible to deal with, and many offers were made to buy the airframe when it was actually worth something.

Totally and completely correct. Well said Damien! The other Vulcans in this country are in far better condition than poor old 391 ever was. The time for action was when she arrived. The rot really began early 90’s when she was crying out for a repaint, which our friend, B*****d Bateson, didn’t give her…
As Damien says, 23 years outside with NO WORK WHATSOEVER is a fantastic innings. It is a crying shame, she was of historic relevance in the Vulcan’s history, being the first tin triangle with Olympus 301’s from new, coming between a batch of free fall Olympus 201 engined aircraft and being completed with the complete Skybolt attachment points, one reason why she was chosen as a Black Buck aircraft. She also carried out trials with the A&AEE on the Vulcans Terrain following radar for the switch to low level ops before entering squadron service. So she was significant. She was an important airframe with an interesting history, and yes, it wasn’t sad to see her broken up, it was absolutely heartbreaking, whether she was Donald Ducked or not.
The reason ‘603 is under threat, I feel, is because Woodford is in the middle of some prime land in a very nice area. Woodford, after this Nimrod programme, I believe, will not be around for much longer. However, the other Vulcans around the country are very well looked after and there is no reason for them not to last for a long time yet. The only reason for the scrapman to arrive, I can see, is if a museum (or Woodford) closes as, obviously, moving these beasts is no easy task. So, I think all the doomsday prophets can give it a rest now. Vulcans are extremely strong, they were built properly, and they will be around for a long while yet….
😉