hopsalotI would love to see some information on the proliferation of the S300 and S400’s ? How many are there now ?
Depends on the version of S300. If you are talking about the older variants there are a lot of them out there, but they aren’t honestly all that sophisticated.
There are some newer S300s that have been exported, Azerbaijan, etc. Those have been retrofitted with some passably modern electronics but are still frankly over-hyped as a threat.
The S400 is in what the US would consider LRIP. A couple systems are supposed to be operational in Russia but you never really know what that means in the real world.
The S300/S400 is the one thing US defense contractors and Russian defense contractors can agree on. Russia wants customers to believe that the S300 would perform better than the Russian SAMs that fought in every previous conflict against a competent foe. US defense contractors are happy to have a threat to hype to sell their products.
Think about what happened when Western tanks finally went up against modern Soviet tanks in 1991. It was of course a huge victory for Western tanks, but it was a disaster for the companies that made them. It is hard to sell tanks without a threat to talk about.
hopsalotRussia did the most takeoff and landings for new carrier in recent trials. and those MIG-29K were equiped with external tanks. It is still far more advanced design for carrier aircraft than Rafale/Su-33/F-18. by TWR/Top speed/agility/altitude. and does not need canards.
:rolleyes:
Laughable…
As usual, if you want someone for an airshow you know who to turn to.
If you want to go to war, you want the best complete system. Easily the SH or Rafale if you are talking about today. Easily the F-35 if you are talking about a few years from now.
hopsalot“Copying US practices” instead of going through the whole process of re-inventing what someone else has already perfected is intelligent.
Exactly, if you are just starting out trying to learn something new it makes sense to try to learn from those who have already mastered it.
If you are going to copy someone, copy the best. It makes no sense to try to copy Russian operations considering that the Russians themselves are only marginally operational with one carrier and a tiny wing of aircraft for it.
hopsalotWhy aren’t you kind to answer to my question about your credentials ?:)
Because it is simply completely unnecessary and would prove more a distraction than anything else.
I have provided more than ample evidence for each point I have made. If I rattled off a resume all that would do is provoke the usual cries of disbelief or ever increasing demands for proof.
hopsalotThe correct interpretation is the F-35s will be freed to operate in the twenties carefree. For that demand the testing of the limits has started. Whatever behavior will be shown a carefree handling above the twenties hit aerodynamic limitations. Several fighters show a contrability behind the 20s, but that is no longer the demanded carefree behavior. By the way other limitations like G-force were reached in the 20s too and the FBW has to take a limiting control already to keep the fighter in safe control. 😉
The G-force an aircraft is experiencing is not dependent solely on AoA. You should know that.
You could pull 9 Gs at 20 AoA and 9Gs at 15 AoA, or 30 AoA …
The F-35 is designed to be controllable at 50 degrees AoA, though the utility of this is relatively limited, it will be a capability of the F-35 nonetheless.
This really shouldn’t be such a difficult idea to wrap your head around. The F-35 is not the first aircraft with the ability to operate at these sorts of AoA, even if it is uncommon.
hopsalotDoesn’t seem that impossible when you see a Flanker doing those crazy back-flips.
Go look up what AoA means…
After that you can start worrying about who is or isn’t clueless.
hopsalotCare to enlighten us how is the F-35 going to use this “magical” and “astonishing” 50 degrees AOA in a real world scenario? 🙂
Magical? Astonishing?
Did someone here use those words?
No?
From earlier in this same thread:
It isn’t likely that an F-35 will actually reach 50 AoA during any real world scenario but it does show once again that the F-35 is anything but the slow, unmaneuverable aircraft critics wish it were.
Super high AoA capability is not particularly useful, in that it is similar to the various air-show maneuvers that some designs have produced.
It is nonetheless noteworthy that the F-35 has an exceptional high AoA capability as it debunks many of the smears critics have invented about the F-35. (That it is unmaneuverable, or helpless in a dogfight, a newer F-105, etc etc.)
In real world operations the F-35 will be unlikely to reach 50 degrees AoA, but the fact that it can go there if needed means that the airframe is perfectly comfortable operating at the 25-30 degree limits of most of its competitors.
I already stated that the 50 degree angle of attack limit would be unlikely to be put to use in real world operations, but it nonetheless exists and I don’t like to see the clueless types here spewing misinformation.
There isn’t anything “magical” about the F-35’s ability to hit 50 degrees AoA, and if you find that “astonishing” you haven’t been paying attention to the program thus far.
hopsalotClueless of how a modern FCS work and aerodynamic limitation are we..?
Why don’t you produce any sources from LM if you like that state, 50 deg under normal flight mode?
Once again, it is kind of cute in a way watching people here just refuse to believe something they don’t like.
Why not google a topic rather than just spouting off in ignorance?
The
F-35A flight sciences tested evaluated handling
characteristics and performance in a larger, more stressful
flight envelope than the other two variants (e.g. up to 20
degrees angle‑of‑attack, with 50 degrees being the required
maximum, and 9 g-load factor, which is the planned
maximum load factor).
http://www.dote.osd.mil/pub/reports/FY2011/pdf/dod/2011f35jsf.pdf
The aircraft started high AOA testing back in October after it finished engine air start testing. The F-35 has an angle-of-attack limit of 50 degrees, but a source familiar with the design says it could potentially exceed that.
Both versions of the jet will have an angle-of-attack limit of 50 degrees, which is comparable to the Boeing F/A-18. But while the F/A-18s top out at about 50 degrees AOA–though with some effort one can momentarily exceed that–the Hornet/Super Hornet doesn’t have an alpha limiter. Neither does Lockheed Martin’s other 5th generation fighter, the F-22 Raptor.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/09/usmcs-f-35b-completes-air-star.html
They’ll be going from the current 20 degree AOA restriction to 50 degrees AOA. But unlike its Lockheed Martin corporate sibling, the F-22 Raptor, or the Boeing F/A-18, the F-35 has an alpha limiter that won’t allow you to exceed 50 degrees AOA.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/08/edwards-afb-about-to-start-f-3.html
Seriously people. If you don’t understand something ask questions rather than just inventing the answers you wish were true.
:rolleyes:
hopsalotI do love how people around here feel free to just make up whatever they want.
:rolleyes:
hopsalotSuper high AoA capability is not particularly useful, in that it is similar to the various air-show maneuvers that some designs have produced.
It is nonetheless noteworthy that the F-35 has an exceptional high AoA capability as it debunks many of the smears critics have invented about the F-35. (That it is unmaneuverable, or helpless in a dogfight, a newer F-105, etc etc.)
In real world operations the F-35 will be unlikely to reach 50 degrees AoA, but the fact that it can go there if needed means that the airframe is perfectly comfortable operating at the 25-30 degree limits of most of its competitors.
hopsalot.. and the F-35 will be limited to a value below 30 AoA as well in operational service for care free handling in the sound part of the flying envelope, whatever values were achieved during testing. 😎
Actually, no, the plan is for the real operational limit to be 50 AoA, which is where the limiter will be set.
hopsalotWho cares if you can hit 100 degrees AOA (or a 1000, 10,000 or whatever) unless it enhances the performance of the aircraft?
If your aircraft hits 1000 degrees of AoA it is way past time to eject…
It isn’t likely that an F-35 will actually reach 50 AoA during any real world scenario but it does show once again that the F-35 is anything but the slow, unmaneuverable aircraft critics wish it were.
For comparison the Rafale is limited to 29 degrees AoA.
hopsalotEverything is not about air to air.
hopsalotMissiles do care if they are launched from ground or air (does it have to fight gravity too? on top of all other hurdles)
From a guidance/technology standpoint, no, it really makes no real difference.
As far as the missile is concerned it is all just numbers. If missile seekers/datalinks/guidance algorithms can’t get a missile to its target when launched from an aircraft then it isn’t going to do any better when launched from a truck or a ship. The technology is indistinguishable. Flying uphill will deprive a missile of some energy and reduce its effective range, but of course these are conditions that can be experienced by air to air missiles as well.
i’m not talking 180 hours a year here, make it 800 hours/year and you’ll
dominate the skies.
pilots makes the biggest difference by far.
Also take a look at the training early Japanese pilots went through.
Pilot training is of course extremely important, but it can only ever do so much. You can take your pick of fighter aces from your grandfather’s generation, put them in their favorite 1940s era plane, and see how they do against an average pilot today flying an F-15 or Rafale.
Technology matters. Good pilot training is a must, but so is good technology and good tactics.
Japan’s WWII pilots did have a very long and rigorous training program, but it didn’t stop the US from crushing them with superior doctrine and aircraft.
hopsalotThis whole “BVR combat is worthless/doesn’t work” notion is absurd. You might as well dismiss medium to long ranged SAMs as worthless too.
Going by this thinking, the world’s greatest air-superiority fighter would be an F-16A with AIM-9X/JHMCS capability.
Of course, missiles don’t care whether they are launched from the ground, a ship, or an aircraft. In his world all medium and long range SAMs would be useless and air to air combat could only be prosecuted effectively at ranges that would generally result in mutual kills… your best bet would be to buy huge fleets of essentially disposable fighters and try to overwhelm your opponent.
The lesson here is that there is a point at which you find you are discussing things with someone that has invented an imaginary world that plays by rules only they understand. You can’t have a reasonable discussion with such a person.
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