It wasn’t long ago that our resident (and now thankfully departed) trolls were shaking their tiny fists and insisting that IR stealth was simply impossible.

There are absolutely zero indications about the F-35 having lower IR signature than others.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?137788-F-35-News-and-discussion-(2016)-take-III/page77

I have never claimed those types have fielded any magical IR suppression technologies.. Heat is there and it can’t be simply dissipated without a notice.. If you concentrate on deletion of thermal hot spots, then you get a larger warmer object. What have you achieved? What can an IR missile detect first? A 0.1 sqm area of 1000K or a 3sqm of 250K?

All types with AESA radars field some form of internal cooling, usually using fuel as heat exchange medium.. Nothging new here, either, it’s only the F-35 gang who are screaming IR STEALTH !!!

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?137788-F-35-News-and-discussion-(2016)-take-III/page76

An effort to use fuel to effectively cool the aircraft to the extent that it cannot be detected or that the detection range will be reduced by a meaningful figure equals to an effort to hide an elephant on a Times Square by dressing it up in a red pyjama. There is a reason why producers do not talk about IR stealth anymore and instead focus on DIRCM.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?120578-F35-debate-thread-enter-at-your-own-risk/page28

And also note the bad economy.. for which was THE reason they reduced thr order in the first place.

That the Airforce want more toys.. a real shocker..

First people complain that the Netherlands aren’t buying enough F-35s, then they complain when they talk about buying more…

Sadly,, he, David Axe, and Pierre Spray have had a significant influence on public opinion of the F-35 over the years.

Honestly, I don’t think they have nearly the impact they think they do… there is a certain segment of the population that is going to bash every single military program… just because. POGO and others cater that demographic by consistently opposing every major program right up until they prove successful, and then moving on to criticize the next thing. It is sloppy, lazy, and very easy… but the people who actually make decisions aren’t going to these sources for their information. (unless they just have an agenda from the start)

You have to differentiate between “WVR,” literally, “within visual range,” and the “dogfighting” that some here obsess over. The large majority of WVR engagements are not the sort of turning fights where a “super maneuverable” aircraft has an advantage.

Most WVR engagements are just as they have always been… short, one-sided affairs where one participant often isn’t aware he is in a fight until it is too late.

Basically with the benefit of many many tens of thousands of hours of simulations, exercises, and real world combat experience, the bottom line is that optimizing aircraft for performance in a turning fight beyond the level of performance already seen in 4th generation fighters just isn’t worth it. Far bigger returns can be had by investing in stealth, sensors, networking, missiles, etc.

None yet, but there could be a value to it once the Typhoon is regularly carrying heavy A2G loads such as Stormshadow. It is just as has been said though, there is no value to saying “ooh, aircraft A is not as agile as aircraft B” if the actual operators don’t care.

The point is that on messageboards slow speed WVR “dogfighting” is seen as extremely important, (witness the endless discussions we see about it with regard to the F-35 and other aircraft), but in the real wold it is recognized as a very small part of what a fighter actually does.

Most 4th generation fighters are simply seen as “good enough” and there aren’t major efforts ongoing to improve WVR performance.

No you simply show how naively ignorant you are of U.S. society and politics.

:eagerness:

Which is better, a screwdriver, or toast with jelly?

Discuss…