it still is only a bunch of superlatives without the slightest tea spoon of data

Data meaning what? He is talking about how the plane flies. His impressions of its capabilities (along with the numerous other first-hand accounts we now have) constitute data.

I don’t give damn about who he is.. Beesley was even much more experienced..
Evidence is everything..

…and the two of them agree. As do the 31 pilots surveyed by Heritage, and the Norwegian pilot, and the Dutch pilot.

What a crazy coincidence that all these highly experienced fighter pilots with time in the F-35 would all form such similar opinions about its capabilities.

I have a news flash for you. These first hand accounts are what we call “evidence.”

EF 311 kg/m^2
Rafale 326 kg/m^2
Gripen 336 kg/m^2
F-15 358 kg/m^2
Su-27 371 kg/m^2
F-22 375 kg/m^2
F-4 phantom 383 kg/m^2
F-16C Block30 430 kg/m^2
F-35 446 kg/m^2
MiG-31 665 kg/m^2

Boeing 747 727 kg/m^2

(Lower=better)

Wow, we really needed this posted again.

Here is a quick addition :

F-102a 172kg/m^2

Greatest fighter ever? Of course! :very_drunk:

Don’t go by such low prices by some un-named official. There is no new build Western 4th generation fighter available at that price point. And after the MRCA saga, the MoD and MoF know very well what to expect when it comes to prices for the jets that were in the competition. At most a 5-10% price variation may be seen depending on the scale of fighters to be built, but nowhere near $45 million. Only the Tejas Mk1 will be available at that price.

Or you could believe MSphere’s numbers and they could buy brand new Su-35s for <$20 million each. :very_drunk:

I remember reading it a few months back. So I just googled it to get a refresh. Skipped over the Sputnik and RT versions and clicked on the link below. The gist of what I am getting at here is, that the aircraft performed well. The su 35 is an argument for another day. And I think that guy got the su 34 mixed up with it. B/c the su 34 is something that nato doesn’t exactly have.

http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/03/09/syria-russia-military-might-surprises-west.html

You skipped over RT and Sputnik and went to “the Strategic Culture Institute?” Seriously? :stupid:

Some of their top headlines:

“US-Qatar Deal Threatens Russia: Reading News Between the Lines”
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/12/28/us-qatar-deal-threatens-russia-reading-news-between-lines.html

“Obama’s Halloween Scare: Temperamentally Unfit President Threatened War with Russia”

“America’s Lynch Mob ‘Democracy’”
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/01/03/america-lynch-mob-democracy.html

“New York Times Continues Lying About Ukraine”
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/01/02/new-york-times-continues-lying-about-ukraine.html

“How a United Iran, Russia and China are Changing The World – For the Better”
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/01/01/how-united-iran-russia-china-changing-world-better.html

“Obama’s Failed Presidency”
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/12/31/obama-failed-presidency.html

“Buoyant Putin and Sinking Western Mis-Leaders”
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/12/30/buoyant-putin-and-sinking-western-mis-leaders.html

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This is the exact kind of BS that India is famous for. They probably cheaped out on the maintenance contract and then ran the jets into the dirt. Then after THEY wreck them, (from cheaping out and not listening) they come out and complain about quality.

Then they will go out and spend twice as much on western fighters and repeat the process.

But it sure makes for good trash talk. This is why it is sometimes better just not to make sales to certain customers.

The Indians have been operating Russian jets in general and Mig-29s in particular for decades. If they think they are crap… well… they are crap.

There are also big differences between a jet that might not be 100% mission capable because it has some avionics issue that degrades its ability to perform its mission (or is undergoing refurbishment, etc) and a jet that is non-operable because it literally can’t fly because its brand new engines have defects.

NEW DELHI — The Indian Navy’s primary fighter operating from the aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya faces operational deficiencies due to defects in engines, airframes and fly-by-wire systems, according to a report by India’s autonomous auditor, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG). However, Indian Navy officials say the Russian-made MiG-29K remains the best choice available.

The report said the “aircraft MiG-29K is being technically accepted despite having discrepancies and anomalies.”

India ordered 45 MiG-29K aircraft and equipment worth $2.2 billion in two separate orders — in 2004 and 2010 — from Russia. It is the primary combat platform on Vikramaditya, which was acquired from Russia when it was known as the Admiral Gorshkov.

…

On problems with the engine, the CAG report said: “Since induction in February 2010, 40 engines (62 percent) of twin-engined MiG-29K have been withdrawn from service/rejected due to design-related defects.”

Additionally, the serviceability of the warplanes was low, ranging from 21.30 percent to 47.14 percent, according to the report.

“The roots of these problems (serviceability and defects) lie in the extremely poor quality control in the Russian military-industrial complex and dismal product support being rendered by the Russian industry to the Indian Navy for the past 25 years,” Prakash said. “This is in spite of the fact that the development of the MiG-29K has been totally funded by the Indian Navy.”

On how the aircraft could affect combat worthiness of the Navy, the CAG report said: “The service life of MiG -29K is 6,000 hours or 25 years (whichever is earlier) but the deficiencies and snags in the aircraft is likely to reduce the operational life of the aircraft, thereby affecting combat worthiness of [the Indian] Navy.”

Detailing the defects of the engine on MiG-29K, the report noted that “even as the RD-33 MK engine (mounted on MiG-29K) was considered an advancement over the engine of the MiG-29K, its reliability remains questionable.”

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/naval/naval-aviation/2016/08/10/india-mig-29k-aircraft-navy-defects/88510782/

So $50 million each, only to have 2/3rds broken from the very start.

Kinda explains why they keep looking for Western designs…

Russia’s military industry is thriving.

and its always funny to see people scoff about Russia being low tech while they are the only ones capable of bringing man into space.

Another RT viewer it seems…

http://www.china.org.cn/china/2016-12/27/content_39988627.htm