hopsalotIndian participation in the Pak-Fa (more specifically FGFA) is not contingent on competition in this “make in India” competition. The is no way the F-35 could meet the stringent requirements for this either. This RFI may end up going nowhere considering MoD has the Tejas, FGFA, Mig-29K, and integration of the Rafale all squeezing the budget for the next decade.
Whatever the case, there is no chance for a FGFA/F-35 competition on this proposed “Make in India” fighter initiative. If I had to use a crystal ball, I would say: Gripen makes sense- already purchasing F414 engines for Tejas, F-16 block 70 would face an uphill battle by those who equate “Pakistan= F-16” , despite the new cockpit, radar, IDAS of the proposed block 70. India would be better served bringing in Saab as a consultant on the Tejas as was offered recently.
Of course, the case against Gripen could come down to Tejas as well… why on earth would anyone buy Tejas if you are already building a better aircraft in the exact same weight class? A Gripen NG would beat Tejas in essentially every single way, unless you count satisfying Indian nationalism among the criteria…
At least an F-16 would slot in between Tejas and India’s heavier aircraft.
hopsalotActually I’m surprised the Super Hornet can hit 816 Nmi in air-to-air, since in its SAR, with 3 fuel tanks, 4 1000-lb bombs and 2 Sidewinders, on an interdiction mission its combat radius was given as 489 Nmi. Those bombs must be pretty draggy.
(By comparison, F-35 carrying 2 2000-lb bombs and 2 AMRAAMs have a combat radius of 625 Nmi according to its latest SAR.)
An air to air profile is also different from an air to ground profile. If the Super Hornet stayed at high altitude the whole way it could go farther than 489.
hopsalotFor me this means exactly that.. Note that I am not calling for prosecution of Rogers III.. I just want to see Eastern Ukr rebels to be treated the same way..
It’s not that I don’t feel sorry for the victims but the precedent has already been set..
So basically if anyone anywhere ever gets away with murder, nobody anywhere should ever be charged with murder.
Thanks for helping us all figure that out… real valuable contribution.
hopsalotIn the 80’s the RAF had the intention of using its hawks with sidewinders to try and shoot down the russian deep strike aircraft. The idea of using trainers as close in fighters is not that farfetched. Basically you try to fight with everything you have.
In the 1980s NATO air forces included no small number of visual range only fighters armed with IR-guided missiles.
A lot has changed since then. A modern twist on that strategy would require an aircraft with an IRST/Radar, modern datalinks, and modern BVR missiles… at a minimum. These are things that would add substantial cost to a trainer for a very uncertainly payoff.
As I said above, an armed version of the T-X might be able to find a niche somewhere, but there is just no reason to add that type of capability to the baseline trainer variant.
hopsalotSo in the end, no one can find the official source for the alleged “Rafale break Typhoon radar in WVR” incident?. (Yes, i know it a hoax but it must have came from some sources)
Actually, I heard from a guy that the Rafales had a terrible time, and this guy is a mechanic in Luxembourg, which you may note is near France, which obviously makes it pretty legit.
hopsalotdjcross is correct. Get it built for this purpose without distractions. Then adapt later if appropriate.
There is absolutely no reason to try to make trainers combat capable, but a combat capable version might make sense down the road.
Something like the FA-50 is more than capable enough to do routine air policing and some light attack missions in permissive environments.
hopsalotAh, so invasion of Polish and Nazi armies in Czechoslovakia was shameless??? Nice! You sold Czechoslovakia – simple as that. As you sold whole Europe, until ebil Russians broke Nazi’s backbone through insane sacrifices.
Well, than most part of the World got education in our Russian schools. :rolleyes:
Ahaha, i think this “whole world” symptom of the Western White Man is too strong in you – you even don’t realise you’re still trying to speak for “everyone”. I repeat it again, you aren’t whole world.
B
No, you think so just because that would be very wishful for you.Declare the war is one thing. Fight in it, i mean, REALLY FIGHT – completely different one. :rolleyes: You may declare whatever you want, but it was Red Army who really stopped and then broke that Nazi War Machine, while one authors of “declaration” capitulated afterr three weeks of war and served to Nazis in Paris, and others – set in their Island, if not to count some tiny and not very successful operations in Africa. Actually, nobody in the West gave a **** neither about Poland, nor about whole Europe’s destiny.
Ah, completely forgot: Do you know WHY they declared the war on Germany, but NOT on USSR? :rolleyes:
You don’t know who of your current allies decided that all jews must die??? Really?!
Then next time simply don’t start it – by the number of unrightful wars and actions, as well as their death toll, West always waas and always will be a leader. Sorry, but that’s a fact. You don’t have any moral high-ground here, sorry.
This has really gone down the path of lunacy. Keep shouting at the moon if it makes you feel better. Just don’t act surprised when all your neighbors keep hating you.
Nobody defends what the Germans did, not even the Germans. Similarly while the US has made mistakes, it at least acknowledges them. A US history book will have a whole chapter on the Japanese internment, why it happened, why it was wrong, and what the lessons learned from it were. It will also have similar chapters on slavery, segregation, civil rights, etc. You won’t find anyone mainstream in the US defending those mistakes.
Russia on the other hand can’t even admit why it is that all of its “closest friends” fear and hate it. You persist in propagating lies and fairy tales about how Russia was “not brutal” or that if it was they had it coming anyway…
hopsalot[ATTACH=CONFIG]248506[/ATTACH]
Sigh..Russia had legal right to be there and never exceeded its 25,000 troop as per :
Kharkiv Pact – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact
The Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine, widely referred to as the Kharkiv Pact (Ukrainian: Π₯Π°ΡΠΊΡΠ²ΡΡΠΊΠΈΠΉ ΠΏΠ°ΠΊΡ) or Kharkiv Accords (Russian: Π₯Π°ΡΡΠΊΠΎΠ²ΡΠΊΠΈΠ΅ ΡΠΎΠ³Π»Π°ΡΠ΅Π½ΠΈΡ), a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea ..Then, the Parliament of Crimea , invoked its right to self determination. A vote was cast and they elected to re-join Russia.
Self-determination
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe right of nations to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law (commonly regarded as a jus cogens rule), binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charterβs norms.[1][2] It states that nations, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference.
But if you want to see what a real land grab looks like, look at the US and Cuba. Which can be seen in the link on the top of the page.
Oddly enough I don’t see anything in the agreement that allows Russian forces to blockade Ukrainian forces in their garrisons, or cut off all access to Crimea in order to organize a sham referendum without even the most basic of protection in place. Maybe it is in the fine print?
Basically if I understand what you are asserting, you think US forces in Germany would be allowed to seize some part of German territory so long as they don’t exceed the agreed upon manning levels… idiocy.
hopsalotNo, they not.
Really? What did they suffer 200,000 casualties doing if not fighting? (and that doesn’t count the 22,000 prisoners the Russians murdered later)
They were your friends too, and friends of Poland. Remember you had some really great trade business with Hitler? Oil, steel, machinery.
The US traded with Germany, so did everyone else. What is your point? Is that the same thing as invading Poland with them?
What? Please – don’t remind you about these pages of Poland history?
Nobody defends the deal that gave the Sudetenland to Germany, but pretending that is somehow the equivalent of invading multiple neighbors without pretext and seeking to incorporate them into your empire…
So i repeat my point – Russia nver was brutal. We didn’t killtens of millions, just because their not white, or they’re jew or some other ethnos.
Yes, you have been repeating your “point” quite a bit, which has become more comical than anything else at this point.
What? You are not aware of internment camps for Japanese Americans during WW2? Or about so-called “segregation” which is an obvious racism? :rolleyes:
I was more marveling at the 2 million number you invented. Who defends the internment camps? Certainly I don’t… but as ugly chapters in history go that one is fairly mild. The US government has acknowledged that that was a mistake for decades, and its not like we packed them all off to Central Asia or something…
hopsalotYes, it wasn’t that bad. West is still a pure and uncompeted champion. That’s a fact – deal with it.
Funny that you preferred to avoid Munich and Czechoslovakia-1938. :rolleyes:
Selling out Czechoslovakia was a dark chapter in history, but are you really trying to compare a shameful diplomatic deal in an effort to avoid a war with a premeditated Russian/Nazi invasion of Poland and the Baltic states?
Everyone?! Please, don’t speak for everyone – BTW, this is one of many traditional sympthomes of the White Western Man, you believe you can speak and decide for the whole World. That’s how you, and your nowdays allies, decided one day that blacks are subhumans and all jews must die.
No, not all the world clearly. There are still those who were “educated” in Russian schools who share your worldview.
As for the rest of that… are you trying to claim that the whole world is either Russia or Nazis? Because that would explain a lot about your posts actually.
Perhaps I should note that when Russia and the Nazis invaded Poland it was France and the UK who sought to come to Poland’s aid and declared war on Germany. Are those the “nowdays allies” you are referring to?
This isn’t even a good enough “debate” to be interesting.
hopsalotRemind me, who formed alliance with Nazi Germany and split Czechoslovakia in 1938? Ah, that was Poland. But at least, we found a will to fight, when Germany attacked us.
The Poles fought. They fought both you and your Nazi allies. It was hopeless but they most certainly fought.
Sorry if your friends ended up betraying you, but it does look more than a little like karma from a certain perspective.
Your guess is wrong. But i think that Munich and a separation of Czechoslovakia are clearly missed from your book.
Please…
Still, nothing comparable to Holocaust or invasion to USSR.
So you have gone from Russia was “never brutal” to “we weren’t as bad as the Nazis.”
Progress! :applause:
Yeah, it’s pointless, be with Nazies and than cry when you get your prize – a control by the winner.
Oh, so the Poles were “with Nazies?”(you know, the ones you invaded their country with)
How about the Baltics, were they “with Nazies?”
What about the South Caucasus or Central Asia, all “with Nazies” too?
Why Canada? There are many other countries, like Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq, Libya, Syria and tens of others.
You know, if a citizen of one of those countries had some beef with the US I could respect that. Each case is complicated in its own way, but I won’t claim the US has never made mistakes or that “hey, at least we weren’t the Nazis” or that because they were “with Nazies” they had it coming.
Like it was made with 2 millions of ethnical Japanese?! Or when it was made with people of other races only 60 years ago, when they even couldn’t sit down near the White Murican or use the same toilet without being arrested or even killed? :rolleyes:
Huh?
hopsalotAh, this Holodomor myth, again. And i already debunked it, a few months ago. If you believe to this bull****, invented by new Ukrainian “historians” from the same nationalists who made Bandera a hero, well…there’re only two variants:
1) You’re very uneducated and very naive person – i.e. a brainwashed victim of propaganda.
2) You’re one of those nationalists who spread this BS.Other links are the same BS. Especially about Soviet soldiers in A-stan who flew in their helicopters to kidnap and rape Afghan women. Only fully retarded person may believe such a bull****. Of course, there were some crimes among the military, and there were unrighful occupations. But there weren’t anything even slightly comparable to things West done through its history.
Right, nothing but lies. None of it ever happened, and even if it did, well it wasn’t as bad as the “West.”
The last stand of someone who perhaps just learned there is a world they have barely heard about, one inhabited by everyone outside of Russia…
hopsalothttp://www.ukemonde.com/genocide/margolisholocaust.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes
http://news.stanford.edu/2010/09/23/naimark-stalin-genocide-092310/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes#Soviet_Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War#Atrocities
There is much more, if you need to see more on this.
Russian history books have lots of missing pages…
hopsalotRussia never was brutal, in contrast to West. All WWs were started by West + Holocaust was done by the West + all most brutal ideologies were born by West. These are facts.
Remind me again who formed an alliance with Nazi Germany and launched an unprovoked invasion of Poland and the Baltic States. :confused:
Let me guess, another chapter that somehow got misplaced for your history books as a child?
That’s why i wrote: It was unrightful, it was opressing political freedoms and dessidents, but fact is – it never was brutal, especially if to compare it to brutality, demonstrated by the West.
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Some of the 22,000 victims of the Katyn massacre, murdered by the “never brutal” Russians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
:rolleyes: This is obviously becoming pointless. Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, the Baltics, the South Caucasus, how many states on Russia’s periphery have experienced the “not brutality” of a military invasion by Russia?
Just becuase we weren’t right in something – doesn’t make you right in everything, particularly in this “brutal occupation” myth.
Ask US policemen.
Let me know next time you see American tanks rolling down the street in Ottawa because we didn’t like their last election.
Let me know next time you see the US building walls to keep people from fleeing or murdering people trying to escape our “not brutality.”
Etc etc
hopsalotThe current missile yes. A future missile though?
So Russia is flipping out over the possibility that a missile not even in development might one day exist…
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