Ok decide what you want for SDSR, but PLEASE let us french cook the meat!
Just so long as they agree to stay out of the fighting we have a deal.
Looks pretty cool…not bulged like the block-60.
That picture depicts a very strange load-out with almost no fuel. You would expect an F-16 operating without drop tanks to at least have the conformal tanks fitted.
Exactly.. But with the exception of Tornado, none of these are going away. Which means those countries will be operating F-35s alongside the F-15s. Where is the low component of the hi-lo mix?
Quite on the contrary, they are being left without any light asset… Which is just… overkill..
So once again you know better than the forces actually setting their requirements?
MSphere can sleep easy!
Norway reconfirms plans to acquire 52 F-35s
Norway’s defence ministry has used a strategic defence review to underline its continued commitment to acquiring 52 Lockheed Martin F-35s, as well as outlining plans to acquire different types of manned and unmanned surveillance aircraft.
Presented by defence chief Adm Haakon Bruun-Hanssen on 1 October, the review will help inform a new long-term plan for the Norwegian armed forces expected to be released in 2016.
“We remain dependent on the timely introduction of new capabilities into our armed forces, such as the F-35,” Bruun-Hanssen said, presenting the document. “Only by completing the acquisition of 52 combat aircraft with the [Kongsberg] Joint Strike Missile will we be able to provide the full spectrum of capabilities that we need to address our future security challenges.”
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/norway-reconfirms-plans-to-acquire-52-f-35s-417409/
All this talk of dogfighting… so 20th century.
Lockheed considering laser weapon concepts for F-35
…
Once introduced, the F-35 will remain in service for 30 to 40 years, and is a likely candidate for a fighter-based airborne laser module.
Lockheed says it would offer an airborne derivative of the system it is developing for the army, which uses spectral beam combining to channel energy from a stack of individual fibre laser modules into a “single, high-power, monolithic beam”.
The company claims laser efficiency rates as high as 40%, and says its modular design is scalable to higher power outputs with significantly more redundancy and resistance to battle damage.
Combined with the Aero-adaptive Aero-optic Beam Control (ABC) turret the company is developing in partnership with the US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) and Air Force Research Laboratory – Lockheed says a functional airborne laser weapon could be deployed by the end of the decade.
“We’re certainly talking to the air force about their plans and roadmap for developing laser weapons for F-35 and other platforms,” says Afzal. “We would want to do that in partnership with the air force, both with the turret and platform.”
The company is taking a number of approaches to aircraft protection, and is also pursuing a miniature self-defense munition through a project called “KICM”.
Lockheed’s first 60kW laser will be delivered to the army “late next year,” and in the meantime the company will begin army-sponsored trials of its ground-based, 30kW high-energy laser testbed called ATHENA at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico later this year.
“The F-16 has far exceeded my expectations. However, if I had realized at the time that the airplane would have been used as a multimission, primarily an air-to-surface airplane as it is used now, I would have designed it differently. ” – Harry Hillaker
“Nothing of the sort, Hopsalittle. The user need changed. Don’t misrepresent history. ” -Guy with a cartoon cat for his avatar.
Lets not become sulky LO.
The F-16 was designed as a lightweight day fighter, but was then turned into an all weather 24 hour bomber. If it had been designed for that role from the start, I’m sure it’d have looked very different.
This is of course true, and Harry Hillaker acknowledged as much himself.
If we had stayed with the original lightweight fighter concept, that is, a simple day fighter, we would have produced only 300 F-16s, the same number of F-104s that were built. This is not to say that their complaints are unreasonable. When you load up an F-16 with external fuel tanks, bombs, and an electronic countermeasures pod on the centerline, you’ve doubled its drag. For someone who’s worked all his life to achieve minimum drag, that’s sacrilegious. Nonetheless, it speaks well for the airplane.
The F -16 has far exceeded my expectations. However, if I had realized at the time that the airplane would have been used as a multimission, primarily an air-to-surface airplane as it is used now, I would have designed it differently.
Is this difference represented by the F-16XL?
Yes. The F-16XL had a better balance of air-to-air and air-to-ground capability. In fact, when I first started going to the Air Force with plans for the F-16XL, some of the Air Force people were so enthusiastic about it that they accused me of holding the design back so that we could sell the airplane twice. If you know anything about the history of the lightweight fighter, you know that this was not the case.
With the F-16XL, we reduced the drag of the weapon carriage by sixty-three percent. The drag of the XL with the same fuel and twice as many bombs is a little over thirty percent less than today’s F-16 when you load it up. This points up a fallacy that has existed for thirty years, and I’m concerned that it may still exist. Our designs assume clean airplanes. Bombs and all the other crap are added on as an afterthought. These add-ons not only increase drag but they also ruin the handling qualities. They should be considered from the beginning.
We ought to start with the weapon. That’s really the final product. We ought to determine what the weapon is and what it will take to deliver it and then do the airplane. Now, we design the airplane and smash the weapon on it.
http://www.codeonemagazine.com/article.html?item_id=37
That is why I find it so amusing when fankiddies try to invoke Hillaker. He freely acknowledged that in retrospect the F-16 should have been approached differently with a much smaller emphasis on clean performance and a greater emphasis on loaded performance.
The F-16 also ended up looking like this:
If the F-16 had been built with the necessary internal volume from the start it would have been far more efficient than adding a never ending list of new fairings and protrusions.
The latest update to the US’s f-16s is a perfect example. Open Pod as discussed above adds a nifty IRST, and a 500lb non-jettisonable load. Do you think anyone is excited at the prospect of dogfighting with a 500lb bomb you can’t get rid of? Of course not, but on balance they would rather have the IRST.
It is the exact same thinking, executed far more elegantly, that resulted in the F-35.
You don’t have a figure regd. the structure supporting the EOTS. And it’s not only the mounting itself but also spars and ribs surrounding it, beefed up to withstand g-loads. That makes the whole comparison completely useless.
You honestly think the extra structure will weight nearly as much as the hardware itself?
Just give it up man, this has gone beyond embarrassing.
It is not half weight of the Talios. Unless it is able to levitate.. The rest is valid.. But you have forgotten one important thing – you are unable to demount it.
Weighing around 200-300 kg and some 2.5 m in length, the TALIOS pod’s sensor suite will include: a high-definition (HD) midwave infrared (3-5 microns) thermal imager sourced from Sofradir; an HD colour TV covering for daylight operations; a short-wave infrared (1.4-3 microns) camera to enhance twilight performance; and a laser suite comprising rangefinder, designator, marker, and spot-tracker.
http://www.janes.com/article/52090/thales-secures-first-export-contract-for-talios-targeting-pod
The F-35’s EOTS weighs ~87kg, so half the weight is actually being quite generous to Talios, the true ratio could easily be one third the weight. (and we aren’t even touching on drag)
One of these days I think you might learn to do some basic research before making an assertion. It would reduce this sort of unpleasantness where you end up trying to defend a clueless assertion.
Outsmarted me by designing a flying brick? Hardly..
Sure thing dude. :very_drunk:
As a comparison Pirate IRST weighs 105lbs.
Yes, and Northrop Grumman’s Open Pod, which includes the same IRST, weighs 500lbs again demonstrating the efficiency gained by bringing the system internal.
(Or I guess I could pull a MSphere and declare that the Typhoon’s structural weight must have been increased by 395lbs, making it a tie of course… :highly_amused: )
WASHINGTON — Northrop Grumman introduced its OpenPod sensor system Tuesday, which seeks to use modular design to give users the flexibility to quickly and easily change the sensor’s capability in the field.
The 500-pound unit can be attached to a variety of aircraft, such as F-15s, F-18s, A-10s, C-130s and potentially helicopters, if they can accommodate the additional weight, said James Mocarski, vice president of Northrop Grumman’s Airborne Tactical Sensors business unit.
The system itself might weight 200lbs but the supporting structure for creating a cavity gets you another ~150lbs. In the end you end up not far away from what a Litening pod weighs (~450 lbs).
I( can vaguely remember an article explaining what the tiny windows of the backseat cockpit of the B-1B have cost weight-wise – it was quite much to consider their complete cancellation – and we are talking about a 100+ ton bomber here..
So basically you just made up a number and added it to the actual weight?
:stupid:
Quite on the contrary, it’s utter fail.. I can’t see the need of hauling that thing aroung internally all the time, even when you’re doing CAP.
The urge to carry everything internally has made the F-35 a heavy and draggy truck, even when equipped with the most immense and powerful fighter engine this planet has ever seen.
The EOTS is less than half the weight of Talios, a small fraction of the drag, is mounted on the aircraft’s centerline and so doesn’t introduce an asymmetric load, and of course it includes air to air modes including an IRST.
Seems the actual aircraft designers have you out smarted again doesn’t it? 😎
Posting pre-coffee again.
Although let’s also review how many things have met their “objective” KPPs rather than scraping over the thresholds before we all get too excited. (Not the F-35 for sure.) In this case, it could be that the study is by way of seeing what it will take to meet objective for AARGM-ER.
Since the idea seems to be making the weapon more compact while increasing its range, preferably without introducing AB propulsion, this could get interesting.
So no source again, just your general inability to accept anything that might be favorable for the F-35. :rolleyes:
Talios (i agree not in service yet)
Looks like a nice pod, but it is going to get to be a bummer hauling that thing around any time a pilot wants its capabilities.
It really shows the wisdom of bringing it all internal on the F-35.