This is common practice, not just to F-35 program, but to many other defense procurement programs. Its just a matter of presentation..

“Hidden separate contracts” are a common practice? Really?

There is more data/articles/interviews available on the F-35 and its progress in reducing costs available than probably just about every non-US fighter combined… and yet certain fanboys absolutely insist there has to be some nutty conspiracy underway that hasn’t been detected by the auditors and bean counters of a dozen different nations. :rolleyes:

OMG, he’s at it again. DA’s latest hit piece is predictably light on logic, and for that matter.. math. He included Long Lead, Development, IOT&E, Partner unique (ie paid for by partners and NOT the US), Support, O&M costs for every F-35 ever built (Concurrency & Block 3F updates), and even LL items for Lot 10 into his “airframe only” Lot 9 Procurement “calculations”.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/feature/184049/unit-cost-of-f_35s-delivered-this-year-still-exceeds-%24206m.html

These sorry of crud hack jobs might have mattered 6-7 years ago when the program was just gaining it’s footing and most of the price drops were still projections but not now. Now they just look stupid…

First of all, comparing the performance of the F-15E with the Su-34 instead of the Su-35 was not intended on my part as a way to devaluate it, as i consider the Su-34 as an hell of a dedicated Strike fighter, so comparing a plane that flew in 1986 , derived by a previous one that entered in service ten years earlier with it is in my own eyes a praise, not a critic.

The F-15E is a multi-role fighter that is an awfully formidable adversary air to air. (and is most certainly used in both roles by its various recent/ongoing buyers) The Su-34 is not an accurate comparison.

Now, I have never heard of an F-15E going around without its CFT, also because their A2G pylons are connected to them, so I just assume that even in those exercises it went in its standard configuration.

It doesn’t really matter whether they did or didn’t as it just won’t make that much difference.

You are getting all caught up in very small details. This isn’t about which jet has a marginal advantage in which part of their flight envelope. The F-15E is a state of the art fighter, broadly comparable to the Su-35. It will have advantages under some circumstances and disadvantages under others. Given that these specific F-15Es were equipped with AESAs its radar would be a strong point relative to the Su-35.

If it can’t detect the F-35 at a useful range then it really won’t matter how its turning performance compares to the Su-35 or anything else.

Those fanboys….. almost as annoying and delusional as those that think that there is nothing difficult about designing and building LO aircraft. That takes a special type of wishful thinking in view of the literature, research, and current examples of technical challenges faced by nations trying to build their first LO aircraft.

This is of course common sense to such an extent that nobody ought to be arguing with it… but then it is also a perfect example of the selective skepticism practiced by some here. After years and years of “questioning” whether stealth “works,” they now believe it can be replicated without any special effort or learning curve provided it isn’t the US doing it.

The simple fact is that the process of learning to design, build, and operate stealth aircraft has taken a very long time and a great deal of expense… and the learning process continues to this day.

With initial overseas deployments of both the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and F-22 Raptor completed, the Air Force has a better understanding of the unique maintenance challenges required by its most advanced stealth fighters.

The service this month completed the F-35A’s first training deployment to Europe and plans to permanently base a squadron of the aircraft on the continent, beginning in 2021. (The service doesn’t currently have any F-35As overseas, although the Marine Corps earlier this year stationed a squadron of F-35Bs at Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni in Japan.)

Air Force officials said much of the work needed to prepare bases abroad to accommodate the fifth-generation fighter jets made by Lockheed Martin comes down to the different processes for maintaining stealth technology on the aircraft.

“The F-22 is a fifth-generation fighter, but its stealth technology is different than what the F-35 has,” Brig. Gen. Scott Pleus, a former F-16 Fighting Falcon pilot who directs the Joint Strike Fighter program integration office, recently said. For example, the Raptor’s “stealth … skin takes much more maintenance actions to maintain the stealth capabilities of the airplane than the F-35,” he said, largely because it’s older technology.
Different Skin, Tooling

The Defense Department required the low observable technology for the F-35 to be more durable because the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps each fly a variant of the aircraft designed for different scenarios, from landing on conventional runways on land, catching arresting cables on aircraft carriers, to hovering down on amphibious assault ships, Pleus explained.

The twin-engine F-22 fighter, meanwhile, was built to “just an Air Force standard,” he said.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/05/13/air-force-sees-unique-challenges-in-deploying-stealth-fighters.html

So the US doesn’t have any problem admitting that it is still learning, even after operating stealth aircraft for decades. Russia will of course magically jump to the front of the line because the principals of stealth are well known. :stupid:

Ah, you were confused I see.

That concept is about as much a Gripen as the PAK FA is an Su-27.

@hapsalot. You quoted RT and Sputnik. Those are unacceptable sources don’t you know..

Yes according to their self imposed targets, they are a bit late. But the way people word it, is to claim that the Raptor was designed and flying in half the time. It wasn’t. Compared to other real projects, its not late.

It is years late, simple as that. It hasn’t taken longer than some other designs but it is already years behind its original schedule.

The PakFa isn’t running late. It took 14 years for the Raptor to go from contract award to service.

The PakFa was awarded the contract in 2002. So if it goes into service this year, it will be within 14 years and if its next year, it will be off by a year which is not “so late”

Yes, it most certainly is. It was originally supposed to go into service in 2015, and then in 2013 no less than Putin himself said it would go into service in 2016.

…and guess what, it isn’t going into service in 2017 either.

OSCOW, April 25 (RIA Novosti) – Russia’s fifth-generation T-50 fighter jet will enter service with the country’s armed forces in 2016, and not 2015 as was previously announced, President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday.

“The T-50 fifth generation jet should go into serial production and enter service in 2016,” Putin said at a live Q&A session with the Russian public.

The Defense Ministry had earlier said the jet would be ready in 2015.

Russia will start state flight tests of the T-50 in 2014, United Aircraft Corporation’s President Mikhail Pogosyan said on Tuesday.

https://sputniknews.com/military/20130425180840337-New-T-50-Fighter-Jet-to-Enter-Service-in-2016–Putin/

In 2016, the Russian military will start deploying two advanced weapons, the fifth-generation fighter jet PAK FA and the long-range surface-to-air missile systems S-500, chief of the Russian Air Forces said.

Lieutenant General Viktor Bondarev gave an outline of his branch’s modernization plans, including the build-up of Arctic infrastructure, in a radio interview with the Russian News Service station on Sunday.

The flight trials of PAK FA (T-50) will soon be over, and in 2016 the Air Force is planning to start commissioning the aircraft into service, the general said.

PAK FA is Russia’s first fifth-generation fighter jet built by the Sukhoi Corporation. So far five prototypes have been completed and are undergoing various tests. The fighter is scheduled to eventually replace Sukhoi Su-27s.

https://www.rt.com/news/179256-russia-deploy-s500-missiles/

Future F-35 production numbers released

So basically by LRIP 12-14 the F-35 program will be producing roughly as many F-35’s per year as the Rafale program has produced to-date. (and in LRIP 11-14 the F-35 program will produce more F-35’s than the entire Eurofighter program)