If J-20 becomes a 5. gen a/c then IMHO both Typhoon and Rafale will struggle and most likely fail against the J-20 — assuming a simple scenario where neither side has access to AWACS or ship or land based radars, have missiles that are quite evenly matched, etc….
The near future Typhoon and Rafale (future Gripen for that matter!) will be true 4.5 gen fighters.
Lokes definition of 4.5 gen fighters:
1. Strongly reduced RCS compared to earlier gens (RCS dominated by external stores)
2. Reduced IR signature
3. Integrated MAWs, IRST
4. Integrated jammer
5. AESA radar
6. Sensor fusion
7. Limited supercruise (in a2a config).
Lokes definition of 5. gen fighter:
As above, but
VLO instead of LO…(ie RCS and IR signature further strongly reduced compared to 4.5 gen)
A low-end 5. gen fighter will tend to trash even a high-end 4.5 fighter. Just like a 4.5 gen fighter tends to thrash a 4. gen fighter. I would not find myself in an F-15* when facing a Gripen NG π
My 2 ΓΈre… π
*Excluding a future F-15SE of course.
How important would the larger Typhoon radar be when IAF will have some 270 SU-30MKI with huge radars? Those also have huge RCS and should be perfect as a future “mini-AWACS” once they get some decent AESAs installed.
Fly a SU-30 together with silent Rafales, all networked.
Anyway at this stage it’s not about technical capabilities anymore but offsets, tot and costs… it does not matter to the outcome of this if Typhoons radar is bigger or not. It’s irrelevant at this stage.
Costs grow for earliest F-35s in production
The cost of the first 28 production models of the Lockheed Martin F-35 has increased by at least 11% to 15%, according to the F-35 joint programme office (JPO).
11-15% — not too bad?
I am still curious about leaving Gripen NG out — actually the NG would be the “least obsolete” of them all.
The reasons I have seen mentioned is that the Radar and the plane itself is not yet fully developed. I can to some extent understand that argument since IAF cannot accept any delays, OTOH Typhoon has also an AESA that is not quite there yet (although the plane itself is there).
It could be of course that the NG was found to be too small and overlap too much with the Tejas as some have suggested.
And @Scooter, please, get over it, a non-US type IS NOT going to win the MMRCA competition!!!
perhaps you mean “a US type IS NOT going to win” or a “non-US type IS going to win”… ? π
Scooter, accept realities: Only Typhoon and Rafale were shortlisted. One of them will win. No SH and no F-16.
My gut feeling right now says “Rafale!”.
Anyway another opinion story on the shortlist:
Dogfight over India. Rafale vs Typhoon.
http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/ndtv-special-ndtv-24×7/dog-fight-for-india/197978?hp
When will Rafale get the GaN AESA?
I thought the USN recently ordered some more SH?
Also the SH may win in Japan.
We are now on page 33 and soon it’s time for a new thread.
I was thinking of starting a new one which included a Poll but I did not figure out how to do that… Somebody volunteer?
The question I would like to ask is of course:
“Who will win the MMRCA”
A. Typhoon
B. Rafale
Nothing can possibly ever generate as many flame wars as Typhoon-Rafale… π
cross-posting from BRF
the Gripen NG “underdeveloped radar” is interesting… I may be wrong but I am not sure if the Typhoon AESA is much more developed at this stage.
If I were IAF perhaps I would consider the following:
Get a deal for UAE Mirage 2000-9 + some 150 Rafale. This may be more attractive than going for 200 Rafale, because:
1. The Mirage are available today and IAF desperately needs more a/c, today.
2. It will take time to produce and integrate 200 Rafale. By the time they have done that they should already have started receiving the first FGFA and the AMCA should not be too distant. An Indian Rafale would be a true 4.5 gen fighter jet however it will not be a 5. gen.
This could be one added advantage of going for Rafale, if India can get a good deal for the whole package.
Of course one could go for Typhoon+UAE Mirage as well but there might be less incentive since there is less commonality between the two.
FX-3? When did that happen? Any sources?