Yes… I hear pilots slate their incoming aircraft all the time…
So. You have:
F-35 test pilot from BAe systems
F-35 test pilot from the RAF
The UK national deputy for JSF[no vested interest there then – none of them stand to lose out by declaring the F-35 not fit for purpose – nosiree]
Declaring the F-35 is great for day 1 because it has:
“day one capability, especially through stealth, and 5th gen piece and also interoperability”
If it was only the F-35 test pilots that were enthusiastic about the F-35 then yes one should be sceptical. However, all the pilots I have heard about that have received a briefing on the F-35 seems to have been quite impressed, and expressed a strong interest in flying one. I also found it interesting that from the story I qouted above the UMSCS seems to think that the step from the SH to F-35 is a quite significant one: “the change in mentality that accompanies the transition. Pilots have to think in an entirely different way in the two fifth-generation machines.”
I recall Jackonicko on this forum some time ago state that Norwegian pilots had expressed a strong interest in the Typhoon!
Later I got this confirmed by some Norwegian pilots, however they also added some other piece of information; they had a strong interest in the Typhoon before they knew what capabilities the F-35 would get. Once they learned more about the F-35 they rapidly lost interest in the Typhoon…
Seems to me that the F-35 will be a game-changer. Of course one could argue that many Americans have never flown the Rafale, and if they did I am sure they would be impressed, but still… I don’t think it’s the same.
I don’t think there is any question it is a step… no, a leap forward over the Harrier.
However, comparing F-35C to, say, the Rafale. Is the F-35… which will enter service some 15 years later… really a big step forward? Is it even a step forward?
In some areas, yes, it is much better than Rafale, in others, it would appear to be a significant regression.
I have become convinced that it is a big step forward. The combination of “stealth”, a large number of excellent sensor and sensor fusion seems to create something unique.
The USMC sent a pilot to train on the F-22:
The USMC, having anticipated that the transition to the fifth-generation F-35B could be difficult, asked the USAF to allow one of its aviators to experience the Raptor’s transition training, operational testing and tactics development pipelines. The USAF agreed to the USMC’s request, and Berke spent four years flying with many of the best fighter pilots the air force has to offer.
“The Marine Corps sent Lt Col “Chip” Berke to an F-22 exchange tour with the air force three years ago with a very specific purpose in mind,” says former USMC deputy commandant for aviation Lt Gen George Trautman. “Because fifth-generation essentially changes everything, we wanted to expose one of our best aviators to the clear operational edge the F-22 has over all legacy strike fighters.”
Trautman adds that “Marine aviation is going to reap major dividends because of his personal understanding of the unique characteristics of fifth-generation air warfare.”
Berke says that the USMC stands to gain enormously from the leveraging the USAF’s experience with the Raptor.
“That is a challenging experience and the air force had a lot of lessons learned,” Berke says. “The design was to take what I had learned and help the Marine Corps stand up its initial training squadron and de facto prepare for the initial operations and tactics development down the road.”
Berke, who is one flight away from becoming qualified as an F-35B pilot, says that the F-22 and F-35, while not designed for the same mission, share a number of common characteristics. The focus for the USMC is on what is similar between the two aircraft.
“The processes to prepare a pilot to perform in that aircraft are very similar,” Berke says. “While there are some unique characteristic that the two aircraft don’t share, the preponderance of those things in terms of how the pilot interfaces with this fifth-gen platform are very similar.”
The most obvious similarities are that both aircraft incorporate sensor fusion, where data from multiple different systems such as the radar, electronic warfare systems, infrared cameras and data-link are correlated and displayed to the pilot as a single, easy to understand picture. By contrast, in fourth-generation fighters like the Lockheed F-16 or Boeing F/A-18, both of which Berke has previously flown, sensor data must be fused inside the pilot’s brain. “That concept was pioneered by the F-22,” Berke says. “The concept of how that fusion-information is presented to the pilot is very similar between the two aircraft.”
Perhaps the biggest change from the fourth to the fifth-generation fighters is the change in mentality that accompanies the transition. Pilots have to think in an entirely different way in the two fifth-generation machines. “The concept of becoming a fifth-gen aviator applies to both the F-22 and F-35 equally,” Berke says. “That’s a difficult transition. It takes a little bit of time to get used to that.“
OK the above highlighted stuff sounds like an LM commercial, but still… it seems to me that both F-22 and F-35 have some characteristics that make them unique. One may argue that Rafale also got sensor fusion and some other hefty stuff, but still I think there will be a huge gap between the Rafale and the F-35. However I agree the Rafale is probably the a/c that will come closest to matching the F-35 (perhaps in competition with SU-35).
I thought the SH had some sensor fusion but:
In 2007, I was able to fly a full-motion simulator for the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter in both air-to-air and air-to-ground roles. The F-35’s helmet-mounted display and large forward panel-mounted 19.6in x 8in display offered a wonderful palette to display truly fused tactical information.
Engine and aircraft system information – readily available and automatically presented when needed – does not clutter the cockpit. The F-35’s level of integration and sensor fusion was a generation ahead of what I experienced in the Block II Super Hornet and Block 60 F-16 simulator sessions.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/testing-the-next-generation-super-hornet-359262/
The F-35 may be late, it may be over budget, and it may even turn like a pig but I am quite convinced that it will be a much more capable multirole fighter than even the Rafale. I have yet to hear a pilot say that he thinks otherwise… and so far, the F-35 has won all the competitions it participated in, including in Norway, Japan, the US, and other places.
Yesterday we had Raptor salad for lunch
Typhoon pilots on the Raptor:
Brazil looks at Gripen NG during the Farnbourough show, and with a larger delegation than last year.
STOCKHOLM (Reuters) Brazil’s Air Force chief, Brigadier General Juniti Saito, inspected a prototype of the Gripen E / F at year Farnboroughmässa a week and seemed impressed with the new AESA radar system of type (active electronic scanning array).
It says Eddy de la Motte, director of Gripen export at Saab, told news agency Direkt after being held out to the fighter aircraft for the Brazilian Air Force Commander, who was there at the head of a large 22-man delegation – bigger than before.
“We exhibited the development of aircraft such as NG that we have to test the avionics (aviation electronics), with AESA radar are in focus. He was impressed and thought it was good that the program is moving forward,” says Eddy de la Motte with a view to radar development program that Saab is conducting jointly with the Scottish company Selex but finance themselves.
An AESA radar was, according to Eddy de la Motte is one of the requirements that Brazil has set for its future purchasing decisions of combat aircraft. The radar is different from traditional radar including the antenna moves electronically rather than mechanically.
According to Eddy de la Motte offer competitors for Gripen on Brazil’s order also AESA radar systems.
“But there are many elements of the contract: Brazil is interested in technology transfers, that is, transferring both the product and the technology around it. We are very willing to at Saab, and experience are the U.S. and France are not as willing to” says Eddy de la Motte.
According to export manager is the Brazilian Air Force chief well versed on the Gripen fighter plane and probably self-test flown it.
“I think he has done that. His evaluation team has anyway been flying both C/D- and NG-plane, it’s part of their evaluation, and it is based on these flights that we have been chosen as one of three candidates, “says Eddy de la Motte.
By Brigadier inspected Gripen were not AESA radar are in place, said Eddy de la Motte, who will not say anything about any changes in attitude to the Gripen in the key figure during the fair.
“We had a constructive and interesting dialogue, but it would be wrong to speak on his behalf,” says Eddy de la Motte, reiterating instead the Saab is often said to have a competitive bid for the ability of the product, its price, and any industrial cooperation.
Google translated from http://www.di.se/#!/finansiell-information/telegram-details-page/?NewsId=d26acb81-8252-493b-8997-0ce0e6c473a5
I did not know Brazilian pilots have already flown the NG Demo? Interesting.
A US Admiral talks about the future value of stealth:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jul/10/navy-admiral-hints-at-jettisoning-f-35-fighter/
9 July 2012, in News
Defence and security company Saab and the British Empire Test Pilots’ School (ETPS) have extended the agreement to use the Gripen multi-role fighter for ETPS test pilot and test engineer courses during 2012. ETPS students have used Gripen as part of their training since 1999.The recently signed contract contains several ETPS courses including two training campaigns per year, one in the spring and one in the fall to take place in Sweden.
The Gripen fighter aircraft has been used in test pilot training courses for 13 years and is an important part of the ETPS Fixed Wing Graduate Course syllabus. Instructors and students use a dual seat Gripen for instructional flights and simulator training, experiencing Gripens advanced technology and flight characteristics. Learning specific techniques, provide systems and assessment on the aircraft are also fundamental parts of the programme. The campaign also consists of target flights where a SK 60 jet trainer aircraft is used as a target for radar assassment.
“Saab is thrilled to have been awarded the ETPS contract for 2012, says Eddy de la Motte, Vice President and Head of Gripen Export. It is an excellent acknowledgement of Gripen’s capabilities having yet again been selected as ETPS choice of latest generation fighter and we are naturally glad to continue this fruitful cooperation.”
There is also a close collaboration between Saab and the Swedish Air Force regarding the ETPS programme, where all flying is conducted in Sweden. Therefore students and instructors will go to Saab flight test facility in Linköping, where a course of simulator flying is held, while Gripen simulator training takes place at the Swedish Air Force F 7 Wing, Såtenäs
Saab is to invest in an advanced training centre for experienced fighter pilots initially from Gripen countries and its user air forces, at Air Force Base Overberg in South Africa.
The Gripen Fighter Weapon School is an initiative from Saab in co-operation with the Gripen Air Forces user group. The Gripen Fighter Weapon School will hone the fighting skills of experienced Gripen pilots from all over the world. The custom built facilities on the southern tip of Africa will provide exceptional training with extensive airspace over mountain ranges, desserts and the Indian andAtlantic Ocean. The course will be run during the South African summer which offers favourable metrological conditions. The training will focus on different multirole aspects every year and the advanced airborne exercises will be mixed with academia and survival training in an African context.
“Gripen is now operative and in service in five countries world wide, and the system is continually under development. Saab now believes there is a need to establish an advanced training centre for experienced Gripen pilots with the aim to increase their operational capabilities, provide an opportunity to operate in an environment different from their own and a chance to train in a region that mirrors a realistic future potential deployment scenario,” says Magnus Lewis-Olsson, President Saab in South Africa, and adds:
“The Gripen Fighter Weapon School will increase our understanding between different Gripen operators and our own efforts to create a common software baseline as the pilots will cross reference their experience of Gripen.”
Supporting Gripen customers in Sweden,South Africa, Hungarian, Czech and Thailand, the first course is scheduled to take place late 2013.
New threat scenarios and new requirements will drive the course syllabus at the school and the need for more in depth training on the Gripen aircraft and its systems. It will also increase the students’ operational capabilities by providing a possibility to experience a tactical behavior that differs from their national SOP’s (Standard Operating Procedures) and thereby broaden their skill.
More on the Raven:
Raven has been developed considerably in the meantime. It is in a production-ready configuration that is at least “two generations” beyond the fixed antenna radar, according to Selex Galileo. The first radar set has undergone final roof-testing at the company’s Crewe Toll facility in Edinburgh and is now fitted in the Gripen NG demonstrator. Flight trials will get under way immediately after the show.
Both Captor-E and Raven employ mechanical repositioners to alter the antenna’s field of regard. A fixed e-scan antenna has a look angle of roughly 60-degree off-boresight, but the repositioner allows the radar to scan across the entire forward hemisphere, and even beyond the 90-degree “3-9 line.” This offers significant tactical benefits, including the ability to undertake 90-degree “f-pole” maneuvers during beyond-visual-range missile engagements.
Captor-E and Raven employ different methods of antenna repositioning, however. The Captor radar’s antenna is mounted on two angled swashplates that rotate in combination or opposition to reposition the antenna. This arrangement avoids any rotation of the antenna, so the polarity of the embedded IFF (identification friend or foe) antennas is maintained.
Advanced IFF
By contrast, the Raven employs an angled antenna mounted on what is, in effect, a rotating drum. This offers significant advantages, but has also required the solving of some technological hurdles. One of them is the development of a sophisticated 360-degree joint, derived from the oil industry that allows the passage of radio frequency signal, power and coolant through it as the drum mounting rotates.
Because the antenna rotates, it cannot mount IFF aerials, as they would change polarity with the rotation. To overcome this issue Selex Galileo has devised the SIT426 active e-scan Mode 5/S IFF system, which it claims is the most advanced in the world. It is the first IFF to use conformal e-scan arrays, three of which are mounted around the fixed portion of the nose behind the rotating antenna.
This arrangement poses its own issues, such as the requirement to sensor-fuse data from the radar and IFF to ensure accurate alignment between the two. In the Captor-E the radar and IFF share the same antenna, so do not require data fusion. In the Gripen installation, however, the fact that the IFF is separate allows it to work in close conjunction with other sensors, such as infrared search-and-track and electronic support measures.
The biggest advantage of the system is its field of regard, which easily matches that of the radar. The side-facing arrays allow aircraft to be interrogated from a parallel track, which is of particular use in a cross-border air defense scenario and is something of which more traditional IFF installations are incapable.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2012-07-08/selex-galileo-leads-europes-e-scan-drive
Gripen have the lowest costs of all Western fighters according to Jane’s:
http://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes/
Typhoons to Oman?
Don’t know if this is the same rumor that has been reported previously or a “new” rumor?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/03/bae-oman-idUSL6E8I38GX20120703
Also interesting that Eurofighter still hopes for UAE… well what else is there for Typhoon these days?
E.g. Netherlands – will go for from 85 F-16 to 42 F-16 then F-35.
Or perhaps they will ditch it:
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2012/07/parliament_reaches_a_majority.php
Compared to other European NATO countries of similar size and GDP, their air force even with just the F-16 looks quite potent to me.
Perhaps they also plan to buy some F-35s in the not to distant future?
Finnish airspace is routinely violated by Russian, Swedish and NATO aircraft, often military aircraft, no biggie. We haven’t shot anyone down (yet). I understand that back in the day NATO aircraft used to rather deliberately violate Austrian airspace.
To my knowledge Norwegian airspace is never routinely violated by Russian a/c, not even during the cold war.
Perhaps that happened in Finland?
Spy missions etc. happen, but that’s not what I would call “routine violation”.
Provocations did happen during the cold war, but that was part of the cold war.
Perish the thought that any country would do such a thing :rolleyes:
Other countries normally don’t do such things. IF they do then it’s cleared by the country, in which case it’s not a violation.