As this thread has got going again I was in discussion with XF382 about the original height of the Chance light tower at MAM. A week ago I spoke to Geoff Firth (ex MAM Vice Chairman) who went to Elmdon to inspect before dismantling and acquisition and he doesn’t recall it being any higher there than it is now. Although emgineers at Elmdon had numbered all the joints when dismantling Geoff is still unsure whether it was re-erected properly!

Roger Smith.

I’m sure I’ve got it – but can’t lay my hands on it at the moment.
I also have in my LP collection the three vols of “Wings of History” officially endorsed by the Shuttleworth Collection.
Vol. 1 Sounds at Shuttleworth (1976)
Vol. 2 Return to Shuttleworth (1976)
Vol. 3 Rendezvous: Shuttleworth (1977)
Additionally “The Sounds of the Aeroplane at War” – the first section combat recordings, the second individual aircraft (some recorded post-war).
Got other aviation-related records but it’ll bore you to death :p

Roger Smith.

Robmac,

Not wanting to get into an argument but as one of the “enthusiasts” who put the “T-33 commonstar” in the MAM hangar I thought I should respond.

The said hangar is called “The Sir Frank Whittle Jet Heritage Centre” (SFWJHC).

By the time the Museum had relocated (across 100% grass) to it’s present site and funding had been secured for the hangar the Museum was already a Limited Company and a Registered Charity – done by (partially) the same “enthusiasts” that had started the Midland APS in 1967 and achieved all the other things (and more) Jagx204 mentions.

When the SFWJHC was being designed/planned the Museum’s Trustees (at that time) discussed long and hard about what should be inside. The main consideration was that the building was funded as a permanant tribute to Sir Frank Whittle who was born in Coventry and grew up, was educated and carried out most of his research/development in the Midlands area. The building was also to provide an entrance/shop/cafe area and have space for an office and small library.

The T-33 was chosen to represent the entry of the United States into jet aviation (using freely supplied Whittle technology) and was a peer of the Meteor, Vampire and J.29. It was intended to replace it with a replica F-80 Shooting Star de-engineered from a T-33 and, indeed, a second T-33 was acquired for that purpose. It was also no accident that the MAM has such a large number of U.S. jet airplanes.

I too am a huge fan of the BP.111 and it has a deserved place at MAM for several reasons. The delta wing is tied in almost inextricably (right spelling?) with the jet engine and the Museum has a number of delta wing jets in it’s collection that the BP.111’s relationship to should be exploited. The aircraft was built in the Midlands. Last, but not least, us “enthusiasts” found the means to move it from Cranfield in 1975 when, it seemed, no-one else could.

Yes, the Museum was run by “enthusiasts” but they were the elected Board of Trustees. That Board still exists, it may be different but it is not seperate, simply an evolution of an earlier body of people.

Roger Smith.

It bothers me that on Health and Safety grounds, the correct propellers cannot be fitted to the Argosy. Apparently a visitor might walk into a propeller blade! The UK seems to have gone overboard on H&S since I left 30 years ago, is this an American litigation spinoff?

Not heard this story before.

After ‘PRL was delivered the engines, propellors and some of the instrumentation were removed for spares as Elan still had Argosies in service. After a few years trying to convince people it was a pure-jet version 😉 and IIRC with the continued un-availability of correct props the Museum acquired a set of Viscount props. These differed from Argosy props (in appearance) by having round tips so the tips were cut off square and cleaned as a reasonable representation of the real thing. Frames were constructed inside the cowls to support the props as she is still engine-less. I feel sure the Museum might be interested in leads to a set of correct props – I don’t believe H&S would be an issue – though I may be wrong.

Roger Smith.

As well as payload limitations I would think the aircraft’s take off/landing requirements would have limited it’s use in such scenarios.

I think I remember a suggestion many years ago the RAF might use Concorde as a bomber (with Skybolts?).

Roger Smith.

de H Dove G-ALCU, allegedly once owned by a Maharajah!

Nice pics PL.

The Dove is, I think, c/n 4022 and was first registered VT-CEH on 14.05.47 owned by His Highness, The Maharaja Sir Pratapsinha Gaekwar of Baroda and was re-registered on 03.08.48 to the same owner then sold 14.11.49 to E.P.Jenks Ltd. It went through a succession of owners, during which time she suffered a wheels-up landing at Le Mans and brought to Baginton for repairs. Final operator was J.P.Filhol and ‘LCU was transferred to MAM on 27.03.80 in a deal with subterfuge, twists and turns that would make a good novel!

Roger Smith

ex BHX Chance light at MAM

Pete,
Is the tower truncated? – I don’t remember mention of this before. The ladder and cross-bracings suggest to me it might be it’s original height.

Is your recollection of Elmdon actually of THIS Chance Tower or an airfield beacon a la the original topic of this thread?

Anyone got old photos of Birmingham/Elmdon that show any of the airfield lighting/identification equipment?

Roger Smith.

Chance Lighting Tower

Is this the same thing as a ‘Chance Light’ or is that something completely different?

Moggy

Moggy, The Chance Light was primarily a powerful floodlight on a tower. They were positioned at a number of locations around the aerodrome pointing in towards the centre to illuminate the landing area. I’m not quite sure how pilots landing/taking off avoided being temporarily blinded by these – perhaps the one nearest the end of the landing/take off run was switched off.

There is a Chance Light from Birmingham aerodrome preserved at the Midland Air Museum, Coventry – although it consists of only the tower and light housing on top, none of the illumination/electrical equipment survives.

Roger Smith.