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RPSmith

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November 5, 2008 at 11:37 am in reply to: Bristol Bulldog flight info #1233212

RPSmith
Participant

Just thinking out loud…
have you tried Shuttleworth – I wonder if they have “notes” from the days they operated one?

Roger Smith.

November 5, 2008 at 11:01 am in reply to: Eurofighter engine for land speed record car #1233223

RPSmith
Participant

Technically, I’d be careful calling it a car…since its wheels are not being directly driven by the power unit…it doesn’t have any sort of transmission (or reverse) and steering is limited.

A jet-powered vehicle it may be…but a car?

I think it’s a long time since the Land Speed Record was held by a “vehicle” with driven wheels. Would it be technically possible (transmission units etc) at over 1000mph?

Roger Smith.

PS what happened to the new Water Speed Record contender that was being built – it’s frame was on show at the R-R anniversery event at Castle Donnington a few years back?

November 5, 2008 at 10:54 am in reply to: Photo's of an RAF career 1930's to 1960's ! #1233232

RPSmith
Participant

The Liberator appears to have had the wheel hub and tyre sidewalls painted white as well ???? – and the prop hubs/inner blades!

Roger Smith.

November 4, 2008 at 12:04 am in reply to: Anson Survivors (Zombie from 2004) #1234295

RPSmith
Participant

Many years ago, I recall reading a review of a book about some young English guys buying a couple of Ansons wanting to participate in the Bafria mercy flights.
IIRC, one made it to Africa, the other was abandoned on the way.
Anyone have any details as to what became of those aircraft?

Tony Tipper? TAT (Tippers Air Transport)?

Roger Smith.

November 2, 2008 at 9:10 pm in reply to: Napier Lion Engines – Survivors #1235249

RPSmith
Participant

Interesting about Segrave’s engines being sequential, so he had a least two available in 1929……Ralph

One for “Golden Arrow” and one for “Miss England” . I wonder if one of the two gave slightly more power than the other and was switched for that reason. That might mean one of them took both the land and water speed records?

Thanks for the link to Flight – I notice in the text at least another “E. ” number. Yes I agree with your suggestion about “Series 2”.

Stuart – thanks for the confirmation the Shelley engine is a Mk.V. Are you able to confirm the engine no. as 50108? any other numbers/markings on it? Is it Michael Shelley’s intention to keep up the collection and is “Billericay” a correct location?

Roger Smith.

November 1, 2008 at 11:49 pm in reply to: Photo's of an RAF career 1930's to 1960's ! #1235869

RPSmith
Participant

Is that a Blackburn B2 behind the Hendon…it looks to wide to be a Tiger Moth ?

I thought B.2 too – but what is the aircraft in the hangar behing the B.2’s starboard wings? :diablo:

Roger Smith

November 1, 2008 at 7:21 pm in reply to: Surviving Sunbeam Aero-Engines. #1236149

RPSmith
Participant

Mark,
I don’t think the BAPC are particularly happy that Cross & Cockade put the list on the ‘net so I think it very unlikely that that one will be updated. It was published (in book form) in 2003 and was, I think, a tremendous achievement. Engines do not command anywhere near the interest of airframes or bits of airframes, are much more likely to be hidden away/not-get-at-able, and can be difficult to identify.

It is my intention to send the list of Napier Lions in another thread to BAPC once it is reasonably complete – but that’s just one type of engine.

Roger Smith.

October 31, 2008 at 12:58 am in reply to: Napier Lion Engines – Survivors #1237361

RPSmith
Participant

Napier Lions in the UK (list mark 5)

A.T.C., 1338 Sqdn, Seaham Sea Lion
Brooklands Museum Mk.XIA (no.66114?) fitted in Napier-Railton car (running)
Brooklands Museum Mk.XIA Special (no. 66113?) from Fairey Long Range Monoplane 1933 on loan from RAFM (incomplete) (RAFM unable to confirm no.)
IWM, Duxford Mk.IB (no.25239) currently exhibited in AirSpace hangar
Manchester University Mk.VIIB
Museum of Flight, East Fortune Sea Lion
National Motor Museum, Beaulieu Mk.VIIA (no.63017) installed in “Golden Arrow”
National Motor Museum, Beaulieu Mk.II ? (sectioned)
National Maritime Museum, Greenwich Mk.VIID ex “Miss Britain III”
RAFMuseum, Cosford Mk.V (no. 50479?) currently exhibited (RAFM unable to confirm no.)
RAFMuseum, Hendon Mk.V (no. 23815) currently exhibited adj S. Southampton
RAFMuseum, Hendon Mk.VII currently exhibited adj S. Stranraer
Rolls Royce Heritage Trust, Bristol Mk.II or Mk.V (may have
moved to Derby – not owned by RAFM)
Science Museum Mk.V (no. 39645) (sectioned)
Science Museum Mk.VIIA (no. 63016) installed in “Miss England” powerboat ex “Golden Arrow” LSR car
Shelley, R.C. Collection Mk.V (no. 50108) ex Blackburn Velos G-AAAW
Shuttleworth Collection Mk.V or XI (sectioned, motorised)
Solent Sky, Southampton Mk.VIIB – see queries below
Solent Sky, Southampton Sea Lion – see queries below
Solent Sky, Southampton Sea Lion – see queries below
Solent Sky, Southampton Sea Lion – see queries below
Think Tank, Birmingham Mk. VIID (no. 63307) installed in Railton LSR car
Think Tank, Birmingham Mk. VIID (no. 63308) installed in Railton LSR car
Williams, Chris Bentley Napier Sea Lion (running)
Plus,
Andy/Racer2 UK Mk.VA (no. 51383 also marked N.1405 & INSTR 1474B – under rebuild)

Queries:
Telecon with Solent Sky inform me that the have one Lion (ex Gloster Racer) and three Sea Lions – email sent. (where did original BAPC info they had a Mk.VIII no. 62418 come from/where has it gone?
Mk.VIIB ex Gloster IVB 1927 Schneider Trophy entrant – owned by Napier Power Heritage?(no. 63103??) Brooklands do not have this – as Schneiderman suggests, is it the one at Solent Sky???
NPHT Site includes:
National Motorboat Museum
Lion Mk VIIA fitted in Miss Great Britain
VIID supercharged out of Miss Great Britain III ?????
Shuttleworth list their Lion as Mk.XI ?? says thinks it is a Mk.V
Rolls Royce Heritage Trust (Bristol) Lion isn’t owned by RAFM
Imperial War Museum BAPC list had no mark no but had “no. CRA1251”???

Napier Lions Overseas List

Camden Air Museum Australia Mk.XIA ( no. 66017 )
Maltese Air Museum Mk.V ( crash recovered Fairey 111F )
Merga Oasis Sudan Mk.XIA (crash site )
Omaka Air Museum Sealion ( No. 66948 )
Ottawa Aviation Museum Mk II (ex Vickers Viking )
Portugese Air Museum Mk I (No. 50095)
Smithsonian Institute Mk. II

Napier Lion – known serial numbers

23815 Mk.V Preserved at R.A.F.Museum, Hendon

25239 Mk.1B Preserved at Imperial War Museum, Duxford

39645 Mk.V Preserved at Science Museum

50095 Mk.I Preserved at Portugese Air Museum

50108 Mk.V Preserved by R.C.Shelley, Billericay? Ex Blackburn Velos G-AAAW

50179 Mk.VII Preserved at R.A.F.Museum, Hendon (RAFM unable to confirm no.)

50479 Mk.V Preserved at R.A.F.Museum, Cosford (RAFM unable to confirm no.
or mark)

51383 Mk.VA Preserved/under rebuild by Andy/racer2UK

62418 Mk.VIII was thought to be preserved at Solent Sky but not there?

63007 Mk.VIIA Fitted to Gloster IV, N224. Possibly removed from aircraft after sale
to Amherst Villiers in 1930.

63009 Mk.VIIA Fitted to Gloster IVA, N222. Last in use in 1931.

63016 Mk.VIIA Preserved at Science Museum – fitted in powerboat “Miss England”

63017 Mk.VIIA Preserved at National Motor Museum – fitted in “Golden Arrow”
speed record car

63103 Mk.VIIB Fitted to Gloster IVB, N223. Aircraft written off 10/12/30.

63307 Mk.VIID Preserved at Think Tank, Birmingham in Railton speed record car

63308 Mk.VIID Preserved at Think Tank, Birmingham in Railton speed record car

66017 Mk.XIA Preserved at Camden Air Museum Australia

66113 Mk.XIA Preserved incomplete at Brooklands Museum. Ex Fairey Long Range
Monoplane. Owned by RAFMuseum (RAFM unable to confirm no.)

66114 Mk.XIA Preserved at Brooklands Museum in Napier-Railton speed record car

66948 Sea Lion Preserved at Omaka, Blenheim, NZ.

Mostly preserved engines except those in italics R.P.Smith – 30/10/08

October 31, 2008 at 12:50 am in reply to: Napier Lion Engines – Survivors #1237363

RPSmith
Participant

OK ready to post a new version of the list (mark 5).

racer2_uk thanks for the detail of distinguishing features – I will try and start a table over the next few days. Hopefully NPHT might help with this? Had a brief reply from their Hon Sec about my initial e-mail but, understandably, they are busy with the bi-centenary celebrations at the moment. Yes the ‘out of sequence’ numbers are puzzling – let’s hope we can come up with an answer.

Thanks JDK for the details about Camden, Rockliffe and Omaka.

Had reply from Brooklands – my thanks to volunteer Geoff Dovey. Here is the new entry to my database on their engine

Brooklands Museum – collation of detail from e-mail from Geoff Dovey 27.10.08
Type – Napier Lion Mk.XIA No. 66114(?) modified aero engine fitted in Napier-Railton car
Inventory No. – D2610 (Napier-Railton car containing the engine)
Acquired – 12.1997
Status – currently on display in operational condition at Brooklands.
History – The Napier-Railton car was built for John Cobb. The Lion engine was modified by the removal/replacement of the airscrew drive reduction gear with a conventional flywheel/clutch. Stored at Brooklands during World War II. Purchased in early 1950s by GQ Parachute Co and modified to test aircraft braking parachutes/harnesses at Dunsfold. !960s owned and raced by Hon. Patrick Lindsay. Acquired in mid 1970s by Bob Roberts and displayed at Midland Motor Museum and, at times, at the National Motor Museum, Beaulieu. Acquired by Brooklands Museum Trust from a Swiss dealer with help from Lottery Funds in December, 1997
Notes – Lion Mk.XIA, Type E89. No. from documentation held by Geoff Dovey

Not quite sure what the “Type E89” after the mark no. signifies – can anyone tell me?. And is it just a massive coincidence that the car’s engine no.
(66114) that Geoff believes it to be (from records he has) is the adjacent number to the other engine at Brooklands (66113)?

Reply also from National Motor Museum, Beaulieu – thanks to them for information.
The engine in “Golden Arrow” (63017) happens to be the adjacent number to the one in the Science Museum’s “Miss England” (63016) which reinforces the opinion that Henry Seagrave’s team swopped the two engines between the car and the boat.
They know little about the sectioned Lion on display (racer2_uk has this to be a Mk.II) but have found several numbers on the engine. Regrettably none of these appear to be a 5 figure engine no. I hope someone might be able to interpretet them:
“335” on crankcase;
“243” and “INST 1032” on prop-end housing;
“LION INSTR 502E SERIES 2” below prop-end housing.
Interestingly they think that two Lions (Sea Lions?) came to Beaulieu from The Bahamas several years ago and moved on to Solent Sky.

Hoping for replies from Solent Sky, Seaham ATC and Manchester University before too long.

I am going to write to Shuttleworth next although I am hoping to go to the next BAPC Meeting at Old Warden in 3 weeks time so will look at the engine myself.

Will post the updated list and known serial numbers on a seperate post.

Roger Smith.

October 30, 2008 at 11:49 am in reply to: Photo's of an RAF career 1930's to 1960's ! #1237932

RPSmith
Participant

what a great thread this is 🙂

Roger Smith.

October 27, 2008 at 1:15 am in reply to: Surviving Sunbeam Aero-Engines. #1163436

RPSmith
Participant

Hi jerry w.

I don’t know if you have been in contact with the IWM/Science/RAF Museums – I have found them very helpful listing Napier Lion engines. PM me if you want contact names.

Also have you been in touch with Alec Brew? – he wrote a book on Sunbeam aero engines and may well have details of preserved Arabs.

Roger Smith.

October 27, 2008 at 12:34 am in reply to: Gypsy Major engine for sale #1163445

RPSmith
Participant

A bit strange – they say it’s a “Gypsy Moth engine” the brass plate says “Gipsy Major 1”. Although it is sitting upright on a stand wasn’t the Gipsy Major an inverted engine and only the Moth Major had it fitted??

Never-the-less be a nice museum exhibit and not too difficult to move 🙂

Also in that list is a Canberra bang seat all you Canberra cockpiteers.

Roger Smith.

October 25, 2008 at 1:35 am in reply to: Undercarriage leg ? #1164705

RPSmith
Participant

Reminds me of an outrigger unit.

Roger Smith.

October 24, 2008 at 7:01 pm in reply to: Wind Tunnel Test Models #1165136

RPSmith
Participant

This is an Avro wind tunnel model as displayed at the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester, the damn thing was huge and was told it tipped the scales at over a ton, no prizes for guessing what it is a model of!!……

John.

In our current “green” World, I wonder how many trees that consumed :diablo:

Roger Smith.

October 24, 2008 at 6:56 pm in reply to: Sheila Scott Piper Aztec #1165144

RPSmith
Participant

very nice.
Roger Smith.
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