RPSmithAnother Spitfire flies!
From another thread G-ILDA/SM520 I see that has flown again.
I’m afraid my first reaction was yawn “another one” yawn – how terrible is that? I shouldn’t/wouldn’t want to denigrate what has obviously been a tremendous effort by those concerned.
But I (and, I suspect, others) have become a bit blase’ with the large number of Spitfires that now fly.
Obviously the World population of flyable Spitfires was boosted for the film “Battle of Britain” I wondered does anyone have a table that shows how that population has risen year by year over the last 30 years?
Roger Smith.
RPSmithThe AW 650 Argosy is 50 in 2009.
The first aircraft, G-AOZZ, flew from Bitteswell on 8th January. and it is preserved at the Yankee Air Museum, Michigan, USA.
The second, G-APRL, only a few weeks later on 14th March and is at MAM.
Roger Smith.
RPSmithAW Argosy – January, 1959
Roger Smith.
RPSmithThe Midland Air Museum has similarly gained accreditation, although clearly not made as big a noise about it as Newark.
Its a huge undertaking for the ‘volunteer’ run museums in terms of hours spent and time with advisors.
A ‘well done’ to both I think…
“as big” or none?
Roger Smith.
RPSmithAren’t Brown Brothers still in business? I’m sure I saw a van with their name on it about a year ago.
Roger Smith.
RPSmith…..the proverbial spit in the barn which ended up being true.
My, my, how times change. When I wer’ a lad it was a Sopwith Camel in a barn :D:D:D
Roger Smith.
RPSmithI think it was Andy who has commented on differences between various marks of the Lion – the ones I have picked up on (but not knowing which marks they apply to) are: direct drive/geared; normally aspirated/supercharged; carburettors at front/back.
Does anyone know if a guide/list/table exists from which a particular mark can be identified by it’s features? I am about to write to the NPHT and will ask them too. I thought it would be a good idea to have such information that could be available to anyone who might need it.
Roger Smith.
RPSmithNapier Lion – known serial numbers
23815 Mk.V Preserved at R.A.F.Museum, Hendon
39645 Mk.V Preserved at Science Museum
50095 Mk.I Preserved at Portugese Air Museum
50108 Mk.V Preserved by R.C.Shelley, Billericay? Ex Blackburn Velos G-AAAW
50179 Mk.VII Preserved at R.A.F.Museum, Hendon (RAFM unable to confirm no.)
50479 Mk.V Preserved at R.A.F.Museum, Cosford (RAFM unable to confirm no.
or mark)
51383 Mk.VA Preserved/under rebuild by Andy/racer2UK
62418 Mk.VIII was thought to be preserved at Solent Sky but not there?
63007 Mk.VIIA Fitted to Gloster IV, N224. Possibly removed from aircraft after sale
to Amherst Villiers in 1930.
63009 Mk.VIIA Fitted to Gloster IVA, N222. Last in use in 1931.
63016 Mk.VIIA Preserved at Science Museum – fitted in powerboat “Miss England”
63103 Mk.VIIB Fitted to Gloster IVB, N223. Aircraft written off 10/12/30.
63307 Mk.VIID Preserved at Think Tank, Birmingham in Railton speed record car
63308 Mk.VIID Preserved at Think Tank, Birmingham in Railton speed record car
66017 Mk.XIA Preserved at Camden Air Museum Australia
66113 Mk.XIA Preserved incomplete at Brooklands Museum. Ex Fairey Long Range
Monoplane. Owned by RAFMuseum (RAFM unable to confirm no.)
66948 Sea Lion Preserved at Omaka, Blenheim, NZ.
Mostly preserved engines except those in italics R.P.Smith – 19/10/08
RPSmithAbout time I updated although lots more e-mails to send off.
Had comprehensive reply from RAFMuseum (brownie points for them too :))who actually have four Lions (no Sea Lion) plus some Lion propellors and superchargers. They have two on display at Hendon, one on display at Cosford and the incomplete XIA special that is on display at Brooklands. I am hoping to visit Cosford when the Beetham Conservation Centre is open and will try and arrange to have a close look at that one then.
Reply also from Brooklands and hoping might get more info from them later.
Burgundyben/racer2 – going ‘global’ was something I was going to leave until the UK list was done but, heck, may as well make a start. So, Ben, let’s have what you know about those abroad. I will be concentrating for now on the UK list. Incidentally did I read (Wikipedia?) that Scott Paine was an aircraft designer too?
Napier Lions in the UK List as at 19/10/08
A.T.C., 1338 Sqdn, Seaham Sea Lion
Brooklands Museum Mk.XI fitted in Napier-Railton car (running)
Brooklands Museum Mk.XIA Special (no. 66113?) from Fairey Long Range Monoplane 1933 on loan from RAFM (incomplete) (RAFM unable to confirm no.)
Imperial War Museum Mk.? (no. CRA1251?)
IWM, Duxford Mk.IB donated by Cambridge Uni Eng Dept (sectioned)
Manchester University Mk.VIIB
Museum of Flight, East Fortune Sea Lion
National Motor Museum, Beaulieu Mk.VIIA installed in “Golden Arrow”
National Motor Museum, Beaulieu Mk.II (cutaway)
National Maritime Museum, Greenwich Mk.VIID ex “Miss Britain III”
RAFMuseum, Cosford Mk.V (no. 50479?) currently exhibited (RAFM unable to confirm no.)
RAFMuseum, Hendon Mk.V (no. 23815) currently exhibited adj S. Southampton
RAFMuseum, Hendon Mk.VII currently exhibited adj S. Stranraer
Rolls Royce Heritage Trust, Bristol Mk.II or Mk.V (may have
moved to Derby – not owned by RAFM)
Science Museum Mk.V (no. 39645) (sectioned)
Science Museum Mk.VIIA (no. 63016) installed in “Miss England” powerboat ex “Golden Arrow” LSR car
Shelley, R.C. Collection Mk.V (no. 50108) ex Blackburn Velos G-AAAW
Shuttleworth Collection Mk.V or XI (sectioned, motorised)
Solent Sky, Southampton Mk.VIIB – see queries below
Solent Sky, Southampton Sea Lion – see queries below
Solent Sky, Southampton Sea Lion – see queries below
Solent Sky, Southampton Sea Lion – see queries below
Think Tank, Birmingham Mk. VIID (no. 63307) installed in Railton LSR car
Think Tank, Birmingham Mk. VIID (no. 63308) installed in Railton LSR car
Williams, Chris Bentley Napier Sea Lion (running)
Plus,
Andy/Racer2 UK Mk.VA (no. 51383 also marked N.1405 & INSTR 1474B – under rebuild)
Queries:
Telecon with Solent Sky inform me that the have one Lion (ex Gloster Racer) and three Sea Lions – email sent. (where did original BAPC info they had a Mk.VIII no. 62418 come from/where has it gone?
Mk.VIIB ex Gloster IVB 1927 Schneider Trophy entrant – owned by Napier Power Heritage?(no. 63103??) Brooklands do not have this – as Schneiderman suggests, is it the one at Solent Sky???
NPHT Site includes:
National Motorboat Museum
Lion Mk VIIA fitted in Miss Great Britain
VIID supercharged out of Miss Great Britain III ?????
Shuttleworth caption their Lion as Mk.XI andy says thinks it is a Mk.V/VA
Rolls Royce Heritage Trust (Bristol) Lion isn’t owned by RAFM
Napier Lions Overseas List
Camden Air Museum Australia Mk.XIA ( no. 66017 )
Maltese Air Museum Mk.V ( crash recovered Fairey 111F )
Merga Oasis Sudan Mk.XIA (crash site )
Omaka Air Museum Sealion ( No. 66948 )
Ottawa Aviation Museum Mk II (ex Vickers Viking )
Portugese Air Museum Mk I (No. 50095)
Smithsonian Institute Mk. II
updated list of numbers to follow
Roger Smith.
RPSmithMy thanks also Gauteballe for the translation.
Roger Smith.
RPSmithI’m afraid I don’t have a clue – but what about the Hampdens, Whitleys and Wellingtons. They did the same job but on a slightly smaller scale.
Roger Smith
RPSmithHoping I can make it
Roger Smith.
RPSmith….and there was a decent piece on the BBC’s 10pm national news bulletin.
It was presented by the Beeb’s World Affairs Editor John Simpson – who is, would you believe it, Cody’s grandson!
Roger Smith
ps it clashed with the piece on ITV’s news about the military funeral of the Halifax crew member recently found.
RPSmithSE2010 – looks like a Viscount on steriods :D:D:D
Roger Smith.
RPSmithSchneiderman, I think I’ll take the NPHT info with a large pinch of salt. If they mean the Mk. VIIA out of “Miss England I” then IT is at The Science Museum and, as you note, the Mk.VIID out of “Miss Britain III” is at NMM, Greenwich.
Funny, Ive been to the NMM site more than once trying to view their collection list – I’ve not yet found reference to the boat or engine – frustrating!
Yes, there was a bit of confusion over the Mk. VIIA at the Science Museum – as you point out it is NOT ex Schneider aircraft. I have corrected the list. I have to say I have been impressed with the the chap at the Science Museum – he’s been very helpful. Have a lot of information now about their two engines.
Science Museum
Type – Napier Lion Engine Mk.V (No. 2?) No. 39645 Aero Engine
Inventory No. 1925-375; Technical File T/1925-375; Nominal File No. 1219
Acquired – on loan from Napier in 1925, then gifted 1935
Status – currently on display, mounted on a stand, sectioned with sectioned propeller (originally displayed in glass case with electric motor, driving gear and starter. Glass case later disposed of. During renovation by donor in June, 1962 electric motor, driving gear and starter were removed).
History – Believed to have been on continual display at Science Museum since 1925, apart from several occasions it was returned to Napiers for renovation and review.
Type – Napier Lion Engine Mk.VIIA, No. 63016 fitted into powerboat “Miss England”
Inventory No. 1930-800; Technical File No. T/1930-800; Nominal File No. 3266
Acquired – on loan from Lord Wakefield of Hythe in 1930, then formally presented by his estate in 1973.
Status – currently on display, mounted (part exposed) in powerboat “Miss England” (Loaned to Exeter Maritime Museum c. 1973 then to the Motorboat Museum, Pitsea returning to Science Museum late 1990’s. Some agreed routine conservation work carried out at Pitsea in early 1980’s)
History – Technical File indicates the engine came from the Land Speed Record Car “Golden Arrow” (both “Golden Arrow” and “Miss England” were used in the same period by Henry Seagrave).
Notes – numbers found on the engine “Engine Number – 63016”, “Serial Number – 7A”.
Just had a reply from Brooklands so here’s an updated list:
Napier Lions extant in UK – list as at 16/10/08
A.T.C., 1338 Sqdn, Seaham Sea Lion
Brooklands Museum Mk.XI? fitted in Napier-Railton car (running?)
Brooklands Museum Mk.XIA Special (no. 66113) from Fairey Long Range Monoplane 1933 on loan from Napier Power Heritage (incomplete)
Imperial War Museum Mk.? (no. CRA1251)
IWM, Duxford Mk.IB donated by Cambridge Uni Eng Dept (sectioned)
Manchester University Mk.VIIB
Museum of Flight, East Fortune Sea Lion
National Motor Museum, Beaulieu Mk.VIIA installed in “Golden Arrow”
National Motor Museum, Beaulieu Mk.II (cutaway)
National Maritime Museum, Greenwich Mk.VIID ex “Miss Britain III” – supercharged
RAFMuseum, Cosford Mk.V (no. 50479)
RAFMuseum, Hendon Mk.V
RAFMuseum, Hendon Mk.VIIA (no. N47-50179)
RAFMuseum, Hendon Mk.VIII
RAFMuseum, Hendon Sea Lion
Rolls Royce Heritage Trust, Bristol Mk.II or Mk.V (owned by RAFM? – may have
moved to Derby)
Science Museum Mk.V (no. 39645) (sectioned)
Science Museum Mk.VIIA (no. 63016) installed in “Miss England” powerboat ex “Golden Arrow” LSR car
Shelley, R.C. Collection Mk.V (no. 50108) ex Blackburn Velos G-AAAW
Shuttleworth Collection Mk.XI (sectioned, motorised)
Solent Sky, Southampton Mk.VIII (no. 62418) ) telecon with Solent Sky inf-
Solent Sky, Southampton Mk.? ) ormed me they have “one, ex
Solent Sky, Southampton Mk.? ) Gloster Racer and three Sea
Solent Sky, Southampton Mk.VIIB ) Lions”. E-mail sent
Think Tank, Birmingham (ex Museum of Science & Industry) Mk. VIID (no. 63307) installed in Railton speed record car
Think Tank, Birmingham (ex Museum of Science & Industry) Mk. VIID (no. 63308) installed in Railton speed record car
Williams, Chris Bentley Napier Sea Lion (running)
Plus,
Andy/Racer2 UK Mk.VA (no. 51383 also marked N.1405 & INSTR 1474B – under rebuild)
Queries:
Brooklands Museum Mk.VIIB ex Gloster IVB 1927 Schneider Trophy entrant – owned by Napier Power Heritage?(no. 63103??) Brooklands do not have this where is it? (It was include in the original BAPC listing)
NPHT Site includes:
National Motorboat Museum
Lion Mk VIIA fitted in Miss Great Britain
VIID supercharged out of Miss Great Britain III ?????
Roger Smith.
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