So (admittedly, having read the latest replies whilst under the influence of alchohol) , can someone please confirm what the exact status is regarding my initial post?!!?

I understand that though many different views/ideas/rumours/opinions exist as to what, if anything, is buried at Yeovil, there actually is no wreckage/airframe etc there at all, or at least, not enough there to warrant an excavation?

No one knows !!!! It maybe there, it may not be, as you have said this is all views/ides/rumours/opinions, but sometimes, that’s how the big finds start. Why not try writing to GKN Westlands and ask the question.

I am reliably told that the wreckage that Steve currently holds is from a 263 Sqn aircraft (P6966)that crashed in Scotland. I believe that he recovered both engines, in fact it appears from the Flypast article that RR Heritage holds both and it is planned to restore them. From the photograph on page 67 of Jan 2005, it seems that the one on disply is in reasonable condition, if a little bit knocked about from the impact of the crash.

At least one Peregrine still exists with Rolls Royce in Derby.

Blimey,that is dedication,any more details i can read about this incident please.
Oh,i vote for any pilot that puts his life on the line for others,the scared kid strapping himself into a metal/wooden contraption that can kill him without the help of the weather or enemy fire.

TUFF, Robert Bruce, F/O (Aus 409257, Royal Australian Air Force) – No.263 Squadron – Mention in Despatches – awarded as per London Gazette dated 8 June 1944 and Australia Gazette dated 22 June 1944. Public Record Office Air 2/9219 has recommendation for a George Cross which was reduced to an MiD:

“On the 22nd February 1944, Flying Officer Tuff was returning from an armed shipping reconnaissance when he observed that his squadron commander (Squadron Leader G.B. Warnes, DSO, DFC) who had been compelled to alight on the sea some 20 miles northwest of Guernsey, was in difficulties and some 50 yards away from his dinghy. Flying Officer Tuff passed the information to his deputy leader by radio telephone and informed him that he intended to abandon his aircraft and go to the assistance of Squadron Leader Warnes, who also appeared to be injured. Flying Officer Tuff undoubtedly realized that, in view of the rough sea and poor visibility, it would be extremely unlikely that he would be able to alight on the sea close to Squadron Leader Warnes, and that to reach him he would probably have to swim a long distance in a perilous sea. He was a strong swimmer, however, and was evidently prepared if necessary to discard his own dinghy. Even if he reached Squadron Leader Warnes the chances of being picked up were extremely small in view of their distance from Guernsey and the roughness of the sea. Nevertheless, Flying Officer Tuff, in cold blood, took the risk in order to try and save the life of his squadron commander. In spite of every effort being made to locate Squadron Leader Warnes and Flying Officer Tuff they have not since been found. Flying Officer Tuff showed extreme bravery in attempting to help a comrade and his self-sacrifice was worthy of the highest praise.”

This incident drew considerable comment at the Air Ministry Awards Committee. Tuff had apparently baled out at 1,000 feet. An officer at Air Defence Great Britain described it as “a phenomenal case of quixotic bravery and devotion. Although opinions may differ on the wisdom of the Officer’s action in abandoning his aircraft, his utter disregard for his life in a desperate effort to save his C.O. deserves a very high award.” The committee, however, concluded (13 April)

“Flying Officer Tuff did not intentionally sacrifice his aircraft and his life in a vain effort to rescue his CO, but must have anticipated that there was a reasonable prospect of reaching safety. A posthumous award of the George Cross does not seem to be justified and a mention in despatches is the only alternative.”

Another officer wrote (15 April 1944):

“This heroic exploit is obviously a borderline case for the George Cross but I agree, albeit reluctantly, that the Awards Committee were right in concluding that F/O Tuff thought he had a fair chance of saving himself and his Squadron Commander. In other words, he did did not deliberately accept an almost certain prospect of self-immolation. I therefore agree that a Mention is probably the best that we can do.”

The same officer nevertheless wished to investigate the possibility of an Albert Medal (for saving life at sea) and suggested approaches to the Admiralty for advice and information. Yet another officer (apparently the Chief of Air Staff) wrote (17 April 1944):
“I am quite agreeable to P.U.S. trying to get a posthumous Albert Medal for this pilot but I feel bound to mention that in spite of the extreme gallantry displayed for which I have the highest possible admiration his action was not justifiable on military grounds since he threw away an aircraft for an extremely improbable chance of saving his Squadron Leader’s life.”

Although other minutes on file indicated hopes that an Albert Medal would be secured, yet another communication (24 April 1944, apparently by one Harries of Harris, DGPS) indicated that, since 1918, the Home Office had discouraged use of the Albert Medal for acts performed by Service personnel in the discharge of their duty, especially on active service. The minute read, in part:

“In the case of No.22 it seems to me that there is likely to be considerable difficulty in establishing eligibility for the Albert Medal under the present Warrant, since we have no evidence that Flying Officer Tuff actually engaged in any life-saving activities at sea. After the officer had informed the deputy leader of his intention to abandon his aircraft there was no visual contact with him. A Typhoon aircraft was seen to dive vertically into the sea from approximately 1,000 feet and the recommendation states, ‘it is thought that it can be accepted that this was the aircraft of Flying Officer Tuff after he had baled out.’ Whether he did bale out and what happened to him subsequently will probably never be known.

“There is also the point that to make an award of the Albert Medal to Flying Officer Tuff, which is bound to receive widespread publicity, would be to hold out his action as an example to other air crews, in contradistinction to CAS’s view that this action was not justifiable on military grounds.”

Further correspondence apparently occurred with the Admiralty, which seems to suggest possible Admiralty support for a posthumous award that would nevertheless be a step below that of a George Cross. However, the Chief of Air Staff himself appears to have scotched even this when he wrote, on 17 May 1944:

“I had previously supposed that Tuff attempted to alight on the sea near the Squadron Leader; I now think the evidence of abandonment of the aircraft at or above 1,000 feet is more easily explained by the assumption that Flying Officer Tuff was under the influence of some kind of brainstorm than by attributing the act to the cold-blooded gallantry with which the recommendation credits him. Without further light on this point (which can presumably be obtained, if at all, only from his deputy leader) I should hesitate to go forward with the recommendation.”

The final word was on 17 May 1944 when yet another officer (even initials illegible) wrote:

“I cannot answer the argument that the publicity inevitably attaching to a posthumous award of the Albert Medal to Flying Officer Tuff would set a standard of gallantry which from the strictly military standpoint would be false. Accordingly I feel bound to concur with you and abandon the attempt to secure this award.”

Two Shots of Warnes, taken at Angle in South Wales when he was a Flight Commander with 263 Sqn on Whirlwinds.

Warnes is the big guy in the white flying overalls.

Geoff Warnes was a Yorkshireman who had played Rugby for the county. He learned to fly with the Yorkshire Aeroplane Club, taught by one James Lacey !!!

He failed his medical to become a RAF pilot because of poor eyesight. However after pulling a few strings and the fitting of contact lenses he past and was accepted for pilot training.

He flew with 263 Sqn as Flight Commander and then Sqn Ldr, taking over from Sqn Robert Woodward after his loss in December 1942. Apart from a brief break when he was seconded away he remained 263 Sqn until his loss in February 1944, his place being taken by the Belgian Sqn Ldr Henri Gonay.

All three of these 263 CO’s where lost in the vicinity of the Channel Islands, Woodward and Gonay near Jersey, Warnes to the North of Guernsey.

Peter Brothers wrote in a letter to me, that Warnes had a disconcerting habit of tapping his eye with the end of a pencil when he was thinking, it was also common for Warnes to go out on operations wearing the contact lenses and return wearing glasses.

Sorry to hear of your loss Tim

Our condolences to you and your family

Ian & Jules

A film about the Nuremburg raid (94 RAF bombers lost) would be my choice, from the viewpoint of a RAF crew and a Luftwaffe night fighter pilot.One things for sure,as CGI gets even better we should be in for some treats in the future, as long as the script writers stick to the facts.

Sorry but that wouldn’t attract much of an audience. Individual “special” raids such as the Chastice operation catch the audience imagination, how would this particular raid do the same.

Bombing raids were long drawn out affairs, quite often just hours of tedium interspersed with moments of shear terror. How would you build it up, the Dam Busters featured the problem solving with the weapon, the crew selection and training, it would be hard to show this to any great extent about just one raid and keep the audience interested.

A slight detour so to speak, is there any record of P51’s and Spitfires coming up against each other in combat. I assume that somewhere at sometime their relative merits were tested against each other in comparison tests. Did Israeli P51 fight Egyptian Spitfires at any point for instance ?

Didn’t they operate from RAF Woodvale for a few years after this, Meteological Flight ????