Even during the Cold War there was an assumption that things wouldn’t go nuclear straight away.
Furthermore as the balance of power shifts to a multi-polar world limited yet intensive conventional wars between powers might occur.
Though by this stage Europe will be a backwater with the shift firmly on Asia.
Americans won ww2 with their P-51, in spite that Me-262 was significantly faster.
Me-262 was insufficient in numbers, much more downtime, less agile, fuel was so scarce so horses were used to pull the fighters out of hangars.
Analogy with F-35, expensive to operate so less numbers, more downtime, less agile in A2A, expensive to operate so unskilled pilots,
last but not least France dont have the dosh to wage another war, and are in fact downgrading its forces by 2 tier pilot policy.
French Rafales are also being acquired in pitifully small numbers.
As for less agile in A2A, that depends on ROE – in last few NATO led ops where A2A has occured, the killers have been AIM-120 AMRAAMs and there has been no true dog fighting where agility matters.
For bombing Mali or Afghanistan, Rafale or even upgraded Mirage III or even upgraded A-1 Skyraider.
For Libya, Mirage III would still have been viable.
But if for contingency planning for WWIII type scenario, then 5th generation is where it’s at.
Also France likes to pretend it’s a world leader – lacking capability to engage a more “sophisticated” (e.g. Syria) opponent on D-Day and until enemy AD has been neutralised means it’s relegated to a second rate player like in GW1.
I wouldn’t believe anything the USMC publishes – they’ve played a very political game when it comes to their gold plated investments (F-35B, MV-22, America class LHA and cancelled AAV replacement) and it has been at the expense of taxpayer dollars and overall military capability (e.g. America class LHAs with no landing dock).
And here we have A reverse engineered Iranian Stealth Apache…
[ATTACH=CONFIG]218164[/ATTACH]
LOL!
I can’t believe someone thinks that thing will fly!
Spain’s also planning to retire Tranche 1 and has delayed delivery of Tranche 3A.
With regards to UK and Italy, I suspect it all depends of F-35 procurement plans.
True, but it will be a very advanced 4.5 gen jet. Anyhow, why should this be a problem for the French? Unless they are in a D**k measuring contest it does not matter what others are flying. What matters to the French is whether the Rafale will be able to meet the French requirements. I am quite sure it will, it is still a young system and has a huge growth potential.
Actually it’s that whole being able to maintain at least qualitative balance with potential adversaries – e.g. German Bf 109 v Gloster Gladiator, or Meteor/F-80 v MiG-15.
Unfortunately it reflects their economy too – e.g. the existence of domestic tariffs and duties which are the equivalent of paying import duties and going through border controls to get from South Dakota to North Dakota.
Look at the Hawk saga – pilots were dying in ancient MiG-21FLs because Indian procurement processes took so long to order an Advanced Jet Trainer.
Some good points indeed. Delay could be longer than 12-15 months. And depending on elections, the Indians could go back to competition or reconsider Airbus counter bids!
The other fly in the ointment is Tejas Mk 2.
The way things are going I think MiG-21 and MiG-27 will still be in service in 2020-25 period as opposed to retired by 2019.
That book looks really nice!
The reason why Rafale is more competitive in the MRCA context:
* Rafale can meet the MRCA delivery timelines, the F-35 cannot
* Rafale can nail down on a fix contract cost, LMA cannot do the same, as the jet is still in development
* Rafale can provide a documented, proven record of operational and logistical cost, The F-35 can only provide a computer model, that is periodicaly updated based on lessons learned from testing. Needless to say, with almost 2/3 of the testing remaining, that model is far from FIXED.
* The MRCA is as much as TOT as it is about procuring a capable fighter. If the F-35 has to provide a comparable TOT and In house production promise, many complex issues must be hammered out by the Indian and the US Governments…That will take plenty of time!
* For the JSF to be considered, its developer actually needs to offer it. Clearly given the contents of the request for proposals, LMA felt they could field a more competitive bid by offering the F-16I instead.For the F-35 to be more competitive, in the MRCA context, the IAF would have to considerably delay the entire acquisition program, and look at an IOC date that is far out into the future. There are also issues, with the F-35 being able to fly to India and be put to the test by the IAF, but i guess those can be ironed out.
I agree with this post to a great degree but with a caveat:
If Rafale acquisition is delayed to a point where vast majority of airframes are delivered post-2020 then F-35 is a far more viable option.
But thanks for reminding everyone here that it was the United States that rejected India in the past, not the other way around. It’s a good reminder of why India should avoid placing itself in a position of dependency on the United States, or anyone else for that matter, and thus serves to confirm the wisdom of India’s current practice of diversified investments trending towards self-sufficiency as manifested in Tejas, MMRCA, FGFA, and so forth.
Times have changed. US was offering India assistance with nuclear technology and has opened up weapons sales.
The US seems to view India not only as a potential market but also as a counter point to China.
This is far more valuable than current US relationship with Pakistan which was based purely on War on Terror whose Afghan chapter is winding up. Obviously this makes Pakistan superfluous to US to a degree.
The diversity did tend to focus on Russian aircraft mainly MiG-21, MiG-23/27 and now Su-30MKI. Since 1970 Western types (Mirage 2000, Jaguar) were generally brought in much smaller numbers.
The current diversity is partially the result of an inability to replace older aircraft in a timely manner. And it’s going to get worse before it gets better.
…but don’t rule out MMRCA cancellation.
This is a very interesting comment. Given torturous history of MRCA and ongoing delays I wouldn’t be surprised if it was cancelled.
Last I’ve seen for USMC IOC is between July 2015 and December 2015.