I think it’d be smarter to provide spares for existing Mi-25/-35 fleet than introducing a new type that requires crew training and logistics systems. After all Syrian government requires full combat capable aircraft now and can’t afford to wait.

The Syrian AF are running out of operational airframes. A list of claimed losses – a number have been confirmed. Further aircraft have been lost with overrunning of several Syrian airbases including quite useful L-39ZA.

http://www.ejection-history.org.uk/CONFLICTS/SYRIA_2011_2012/Syrian_Conflict.htm

Also there are reports that Syrian AF sortie rates are down due to attrition and fuel and spare shortages.

Nope they still are flying, along this year they will be retired.

Thanks for the update!

Spud – I take it that you have read “1984”?

How can LM have stated that six major elements of CPFH (upper slide) are half or less of an F-16, and that O&S overall is 80 per cent of an F-16, and not be claiming a lower CPFH?

To put it another way, how in the **** are those very specific claims compatible with a CPFH that is not lower than an F-16?

Actually, I’m not sure that the people making those claims lied. Because I don’t think that in 2007 (or 2008, 2009 or 2010 for that matter) anyone in charge, from Burbage and Davis/Heinz all the way up to Gates, had a scintilla of a ghost of a clue how much the airplane would cost to build, let alone how much it would cost to fix. The people who were lying were lower down the chain, telling their bosses or their customer (if they were subs) that everything was going great.

I think the complexity of the program and the masive number of agencies and contractors involved probably meant that no-one really has a complete picture of the cost structure.

thats your opinion, and since HAL is not the only agency involved in the AMCA (there are numerous other DRDO labs involved, and the primary design agency is ADA), the risk of the AMCA not being delivered on time or spec is attendant on multiple agencies.

Still doesn’t inspire confidence that Indian aerospace can bring this project to fruition.

T-50 is in squadron service because of Lockheed Martin.

And the point of that is?

The South Koreans are moving ahead in leaps and bounds. Utilising Lockheed Martin know-how makes sense. In fact a lot of Asian industrial might comes from these sort of processes.

And in the 21st century, collaboration on aerospace projects is the norm. In fact in Europe, it’s been the norm since 1970s (Jaguar, Harrier II, Tornado, Eurofighter, Merlin, Tiger). Even the Americans are getting in on it to a degree with F-35. Chinese have done it with J-10 and WZ-10.

HJT-36 is not being replaced by the Hawk. The Hawk is an AJT, the Sitara is meant to be one step earlier- an IJT and as of today, the orders for at least 73 HJT-36 Sitaras stand without any change. At least you should know that before you go on about how this is a failure, that is a failure. The only place where the plans for Sitara were shelved was with the Surya Kiran Aerobatic Team. They’ll get the Hawks.

Thanks for the update.

I see that you conveniently side-stepped the question of the Tejas not being state-of-the-art when I asked you who else is s-o-t-a when it comes to the light fighter class, and are now offering this line of reasoning.

JAS-39E/F.

it will enter operational service, your laments notwithstanding. and when it will, it’ll be superior technically to the F/A-50. Plus there is a plan for a Mk2 that will put even more of a gap between itself and the F/A-50.

Tejas Mk I seems to be regarded as a failure in IAF circles with only 40 to be acquired (less than Mirage 2000 acquisition). IAF seems to be pinning it’s hopes on a Mk2.

The greater proof lies in expanded acquisition of Su-30MKI (now at least 272 aircraft) and new acquisition of large number of Rafales (up to 200) and later Pak Fa.

the IAF is getting PC-7 Mk2s because it chose to not allow HAL to begin development of the HTT-40. There was an earlier HTT-35 basic turbo trainer as well (which HAL proposed way back in 1993!), which was not sanctioned by the IAF. KT-1 Woong Bee level aircraft could be developed in India within 5-6 years itself. No big deal.

Why did India, a country obsessed with self sufficiency since 1950s, not allow HAL to develop an aircraft they could appearently develop in 5-6 years. And why did they then buy a foreign product?

India has pursued self sufficiency at the cost of human lives (e.g. all those crashed MiG-21s which were meant to be replaced by Tejas). Why then not allow HAL to pursue HTT40 in order to maintain self sufficiency they’ve craved for decades?

Either way, HAL is not displaying anything that would indicate it will be able to deliver AMCA.

The HJT-36 program alone is more than what KAI has managed so far.

T-50 is in squadron service and is being exported. HJT-36 is struggling to live and BAe Hawk is being adopted instead. Last I heard, HJT-36 was on Notice due to slow progress. It was meant to be IOC in July 2011!

In the end “being more advanced” is pointless if you can’t get the thing in operational service.

Believe me, a KT-1 level project is no great shakes for India’s aeronautical industry.

Which is why you’re buying Swiss PC-7s. :dev2:

I’ll repeat what I’ve said before, I don’t think HAL can deliver on AMCA.

I don’t think South Koreans can deliver on KFX by themselves, but thanks to cooperation with Lockheed are probably far more likely to get a functioning jet.

In the end that’s the point.

The Koreans are quickly bridging that gap. Look at the KT-1 trainer which has so far sold to 3 export users including NATO member Turkey.

India had more success with HF24, HT2, HPT32, Kiran and Ajeet (reworked Gnat) in past than it has in recent years in terms of developing indigenous aircraft.

The Tejas has been a disaster that has cost human lives in terms of pilots flying outdated MiG-21s that were meant to have been replaced years ago.

And all to get a F/A-50 equivalent fighter.

Basically the Korean process was far more efficient.

And bare in mind that the Koreans did not have a pressing need for an F-5 replacement as it’s a far more reliable aircraft than MiG-21 the Indians were in need of replacing.

Given history of HAL Tejas, I would not be collaborating with India on anything other than exchange of ideas.

I suspect that KFX will be reaching IOC by the time Tejas enters service in any sort of operational capacity. 😛