FlipflopmanBB,
Without wishing to get embroiled in further discussion about this issue, due to the fact that I am not part of the current TVOC engineering staff, hopefully I can set a few records straight about the current issues regarding the Spar mods.
Mod 2222 was an existing modification, which basically entailed the existing rear spar ‘spectacle’ mounting plates being replacaed with far larger support plates, which were shaped and drilled to place the main stress loadings further down the spar. This Mod was a common modification, and had been carried out on XH558 and pretty much every Vulcan in service. As the Vulcan aged and the FI life required extention, BAe (As Was) decided to re-spar the fleet. Upon re-sparring at Bitteswell in the 1970’s, XH558 recieved a brand new spar, and was subsequently given a new lease of life. When she reached the end of her new FI, the decision was made to retire the aircraft rather than spend money embodying Mod 2222 again. This is where TVOC took over and subsequently embodied the 2222 mod again.
Mod 2429 is basically a Mod 2222 for the front spar, and for those who are familliar with the Vulcan, it is related to the massive amount of metalwork around the forward edge of the main U/C bay, around the Leading Edge, where there are currently many overlapped strengthening plates.
I must be totally honest here, and admit that I am surprised by recent comments about this. It was my understanding that this was all in hand, and that the funding was catered to this and it was going to be carried out during the next winter service, or the service following. It is certainly not a shock to the servicing schedule. What I was shocked at was the supposed lack of background for this Mod, and the fact that it has never been drawn up by BAe. I am no expert on this matter, however, given my history with the aircraft and my experience with the servicing schedule, I’d be surprised if the Mod was going to cost several million to draw up and implement?
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanLindy’s Lad,
Do you need to keep the end caps complete for any reason, or can you hack away at them? I’m guessing from the way you describe drilling the bolts, that you’re prepared to damage them anyhow. As you’re probably aware, the end caps are bolted through the rear ‘spectacles’ with the anchor nuts actually being in the end caps theirselves. The screws on the external skin are merely for added support. If you were to hacksaw, or Stihl saw through the gap between the cap and the airframe, this would allow the end cap to be removed and the bolt heads to be removed with far more ease than messing around with 90’s and Ezi-outs to remove the bolts. You’ll be pretty hard pressed to get them out that way anyway through the woefully inadequate access panels without damaging the structure, if 558 is anything to go by. Far better to mangle the end cap than to mangle the airframe.
Without an egg sucking lesson, have you considered filling the tyres with sand, or a similar solid substance? This would remove the worries about the rubber condition.
Aside from all this, great to see that you’re doing so well with the aircraft, and what a difference you’ve all made to the museum. If I can help in any way, I’d be more than happy to.
Cheers,
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanPlease excuse the thread diversion, but what sort of timescale are you talking about with these MDC detonations? early 80’s or 90’s onwards.
When i worked on Gr.1’s in the late 80’s there was no checking of anything with a steel rule, it wasn’t even part of the tool kit.
Hawks had similar problems with MDC going off leading to lineys hiding during canopy opening and closing.
Regarding the Canopy Guide and 6″ rule squareness check, I am talking mid 90’s. I first came into contact with the Tornado in early ’97 on GR1’s and the check was part of the 5B1 then, along with the 6″ rule being part of the line toolkit. This remained so when I moved across to the F3 in 2000.
As regards the canopy opening MDC detonations, this incident occurred in mid 2004, and consequently led to the see in proceedure being amended to require the linies to take cover on canopy opening as well as closing. I remember this well, as I was in the Falklands at the time and was astounded to say the least at the change in proceedure as the full story had not been released, and it appeared initially that H&S had gone a little overboard!
Hope that makes things a little clearer.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanTo bring this back on topic!!
I own several “large chunks” of RB199 engine, including many turbine blades, many pieces of Vulcan aircraft, including XH558, XL426, XL391 and others. Several Concorde engine parts, Cockpit pieces from Jaguar aircraft, A complete Blast Shield from a Harrier T10, and many more items.
I also own many aircraft “Q” course publications, including many historic aircraft course notes.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanDavid Burke,
There are many things that can contribute to the Tornado MDC inadvertantly going off.
One is, as I expect you are referring to, the MDC Layshaft which is immediately behind the Pilot’s seat not being correctly aligned, thus tripping the MDC as the canopy lowers. This is indeed checked on AF BF TR’s and is clearly marked with a painted line.
Another is for the guide bracket located on the Port side of the canopy rail to have been deformed, and therefore trip the MDC cable, causing the MDC to detonate. This is also called up to be checked on AF BF TR with a 6″ rule, for squareness.
Finally, it was discovered that the aircrew theirselves can inadvertantly fire the MDC by accidentally catching the MDC handle with their harness straps. This lead to Tornado groundcrew having to take shelter during the see in proceedure as well as the see off proceedure, due to a high profile (in RAF terms) incident, whereby a Navigator unstrapped and his harness snagged on the MDC cable, causing the MDC to fire as the canopy raised.
All of these incidents however, overlook the most common cause of inadvertant MDC explosion, which is of course, Human Error!!:D
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanThis is the piece I read earlier on the TVOC site;
”Another thing that the TVOC staff have been going through is training on their quality system and procedures, which they will be following when they come to operate the aircraft throughout the summer season before going back to MA for winter base maintenance.”
To my understanding, based on this information anyway, TVOC engineers, once trained will be getting some kind of approvals from Marshalls to certify work on the Vulcan.
Now either they have been training or they haven’t.
If it is the latter (as you are suggesting) then I would be really interested to hear your evidence.
Joe,
That was the initial plan and all members of TVOC sat a training course on the aircraft, however, Marshalls have not awarded TVOC engineers with a full list of Authorisations, so therefore, as TVOC do not hold an M5 authority to operate the aircraft theirselves, they are currently still 100% reliant upon MA to carry out any rectification work, or to actually operate the aircraft. As Firebird says, these are the facts, regardless of the impressions given.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanThere is also a Stentor engine in the Propulsion Trade Training hangar at RAF Cosford.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanI’ve never doubted the effect of the Vulcan. So I suggest anybody who wants to see her at an airshow next year fly’s in, as the traffic que’s are gunna be huge! 😀
Oh no, that’s right, it was just the actual return to flight and operation that you doubted, wasn’t it DGH.
Any more for the bandwagon?
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanOoooh,
Don’t you just love all of the suspense!!
:diablo:
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanYou won’t get far with one of those! Better nip out and by a Tech’ Log quick.;)
exmpa
exmpa,
The RAF F700 is still in use for XH558, and will remain so for all future operations.
andrewman,
Crew currency flights and ‘Anti Det’ running will still be an issue for 558, and therefore regular flights will still be taking place.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanThe word around Bruntingthorpe today (Saturday) is as follows, there will be some sort of official “handing over to the crew” early next week (another expensive publicity stunt?!) she will then be out later in the week for runs and taxi trials observed by a CAA test pilot. At some point shortly thereafter she will fly.
The handing over of the aircraft, to the aircrew, is not any kind of ceremony, and is by no means a publicity stunt. It simply means that the ‘Rectification’ phase is complete, with a fully serviceable, airworthy aircraft. This basically means that the aircrew can now sign the F700 and take over the aircraft, as per a normal, serviceable aircraft.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanAs Exmpa states,
The periscope for the Vulcan is located at the AEO station, and is integral to the aircraft. It cannot be mounted anywhere else. It is possible to view both the upper and lower surfaces, by raising or lowering the operating handle. When raised, you can view the upper surfaces, when lowered, you can view the lower surface.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanMark,
I’m sure the aircrew would be able to give you a more definitive answer than myself, but I believe that it will remain the same as before, at around 120kts.
As you probably know, the runway is split into two seperate tracks at Brunty, and as you saw, this is done around the mid point, with temporary barriers. We have to move these also when we take 558 down to the running pan. Obviously, these will all be cleared, and the runway fully swept and ‘fod plodded’ before 558 will be using it!!
Firebird,
I believe that the HLF issue is more about protecting 558 from wearing a ‘Red Bull’ style livery, although personally, I’d happily accept that to see 558 back in the air again! 😀 I believe that there is indeed scope for other authentic colour schemes to be worn, but the issue with this is, as ever, cost. I was a little surprised myself initially at the figures, but as it was explained to me by the painters, I could begin to see where the money was going. Couple that with the engineering costs, and even if it does happen, it won’t be happening for a few years yet!!
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanSame colour scheme unfortunately mate, at least initially. This is a HLF requirement, as a condition of the grant.
Personally, I’d also love to see her painted White with Pastels myself. However, the cost of having this done professionally would be likely to run into six figures, so you can appreciate that it’s not really an immediate concern! :p
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanFrom the dry weight figures that the TVOC have come up with, she now weigh’s in at 39.000lb .
the full fuel load on a Vulcan was around 74.000lb and her old display weight with fuel was in the region of 130.000lb, i dont think her old display weight was with a full fuel load .
so if she now weigh’s in at 39.000lb and you half fill her with say 35.000lb of fuel she wil be very light . so as for needing full power i cannot she her needing it.
unless ive got my figures all wrong.:eek:
You have got your figures quite catastrophically wrong I’m afraid mate. I think you’ve got confused with her weight on Mars!!! 😀
When XH558 flew into Brunty, she weighed 112,000lbs dry. This is without fuel, and it appears that this is another area in which you are getting confused.
After XH558 was subject to all of her deletions and all redundant wiring removed, she was weighed again, initially for CG purposes. This showed that the CG had shifted aft of the aft limit by 18 inches😮
Rather surprisingly, it showed that she was quite considerably underweight, and below the Minimum Zero Fuel Weight of an AVRO Vulcan B2, which is 96,000lbs.
Clearly this has required us to ballast, and so we have fitted 1.5” thick steel plate in place of the deleted H2S scanner, and we have refitted many of the heaviest NBS black boxes (Calc3, Calc6 etc..)
We are now in a state where XH558 weighs, Without crew, or usable fuel. 100690.96 lbs
So you can see clearly there, that there has been a weight reduction of around 11,500lbs.
Factored take offs are an area we have been looking into, due to the thrust excess, as is retaining the howl, with 1 engine cycle being classed as an excursion from Idle – Max – Idle. If the crew can flow the display as before, then there is a high probability of it remaining a major part of the display.
Hope that clears up a few grey areas.
Flipflopman
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