FlipflopmanAvdels, by the way, come grouped with their own P/N and not with any kind of solid No.
They are usually ‘snipped’ and then milled down to 0.001″ clearance to finish.
As I am sure you’re aware 😉
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanHey! I am no freak only a chap trained in aircraft metal working, and a whole lot more, who happens to have used these things, in anger so to speak.;)
Hyduminium rivets were useful for repair, or other, work where salt bath, or other, heat treatment facilities were unavailable.
THey came in standard solid varieties, snap-head or countersunk, or as an Avdel type (a fancy looking pop-type rivet but which left a portion of snapped off mandrel which required trimming down with a special, often pnuematic driven, rotary multi-edged cutter.:)
Phixer,
As far as I am aware, the ‘Purple’ rivets which I jokingly refer to, are Duralumin, rather than “Hyduminium”??
You are correct in that they come in different head sizes, SP40, SP80, SP85 etc…. 60 degree, 90 degree, 120 degree heads etc.
However, the ‘solid types’ are only the Snap, Mush or Countersunk variety.
I too use these rivets on a day to day basis, including the green Mag alloy rivets, and the special “Hush Hush, Double Flush” Black rivets, so have a pretty good day to day ‘Rivet Knowledge’
As far as I am aware, the green Mag rivets would have been replaced by the ‘Purple’ duralumin rivets, and L72/L163 as time went on..
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanBoys, boys, boys…..
Enough already!!!
David Burke,
The corrosion found on 558 is more than typical on the Vulcan, Unfortunately 558 is the best kept example of the Vulcan, and every single Vulcan I have seen is suffering FAR worse from the U/C bay corrosion than 558.
Let’s not forget though that 558 is going to be an airworthy aircraft, so any corrosion found, is clearly going to be far more of a problem than on a static aircraft. 558’s corrosion problem is well in hand, lets perhaps try and look at XM607 at Waddington, as she is in far greater need of our help!
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanAnd on a purely personal note, I’d much rather see any available serviceable items go to keeping XM607 healthy, than any of the other static Vulcans.
After all, if any, she is the one that we should be cherishing the most, having played such an enormous part in recent British history.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanLindy’s Lad,
I believe that the flying controls are in quite a state of disrepair on XM603, most likely only marginally better than the ones on 319, certainly not worth the effort of removing them and fitting them to XL319. Far better, and possibly cheaper to have a bash at reskinning XL319’s with a standard aluminium alloy, no need for mag, or anything fancy for a static. The skin of the main body of the elevon is quite simple, only the ‘duckbill’ at the front being complex. As before, for a static, you should be ok leaving that, a the PFCU access panels hide that area anyhow.
As regards the other parts that tend to fizz away, there are possibly a few on XM603 that would be useable, but sadly, as it has 301 engines and XL319 has 201’s the end caps would be of no use.
Anyhow, the people to ask regarding spares recovery from XM603, are now TVOC at Bruntingthorpe, as they now technically own XM603, not Avro Heritage. Get your bids in quick though, as you’d probably guess, the chaps from Wellesbourne and Southend already have a long list of spares that they would like, in order to keep their Vulcans in ‘Roaring Order’ :p
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanI believe that the elevon PFCU access panels have been down for some time. The PFCU’s themselves have not been touched, but the Desynn position transmitters have been removed for use by XH558.
We are still taking items from XM603 for use on XH558 and for photographic reference to help with the rebuild, most recently on Tuesday of this week. The items removed have been mainly small sundry items, the type that get ‘misplaced’ over the years, if you know what I mean. Things like Fairlead blocks, clamps, couplings etc…. rather than the large, heavy components, many of which are generally too corroded or in poor shape to be of much use to XH558.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanThis is exactly what I was hoping for when I first started this thread. How about those pics of a SPIT fin with U.S. spec material. Some people would consider that treason. Can the poster share the aircraft that fin is from?
And as a follow up, what alloy rivets are the mag ones replaced with?
Purple ones?
:diablo:
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanL72 has now been pretty much superceeded by L163.
This is the replacement we are using for L72 on Vulcan XH558.
18 Gauge, Pah!!! Vulcans use 12 s.w.g. on the leading edges!! 😀 😀
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanI work on fast jets and the sooties sometimes have problems with 199’s, and having helped them with engine changes in the past I can truly appreciate the task in hand!
Well tell them to come and see Uncle Flipflopman!!!
In all honestly though, the engine went up with no real issues. We spent a little more time than was probably necessary, to ensure all went ok, but really, it was a standard winch in, with no problems. 😎
Much better than was envisaged.
Now, as for your RB199 problems peppermint_jam, I am appalled. If you close your eyes, they’ll fit themselves….
I know…. I was a Sootie on them for 10 years!!! 😀
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanIt’d also probably help if you measured the pipe diameter, as many AGS fittings are identified by their O/D (Outer Diameter)
This may help with the threadform and size you are looking for. LAS (Light Aero) are very good for this sort of thing
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanPerhaps my comments were a little harsh, and for that I apologise. I may or may not have been drinking 😮
Mantog,
I appreciate the fact that your friend is working hard to make a go of this, and I for one wish him the very best of luck. It is always difficult setting yourself up as a business, particularly when you are trying to capture a niche market. I honestly do wish him the very best of British. I may well be biased in the fact that I have torn apart many an Adour and RB199 over the years, and have many parts of these and other engines myself. I was a little disappointed therefore after the headlines of “Seriously Cool Stuff On Ebay” to find what I consider, rightly or wrongly, to be an attractive coffee table with a large unweildy lump of glass wedged into it. It appeared to me to be lazy, with no thought put into the design of it, simply relying on the fact that it has a “Tornado Windscreen” inset into it. The mirrors too reminded me of 1960’s style ‘sunburst’ mirrors. You are quite correct in your comment about everybody having opinions, and those are mine. I perhaps should not have voiced them so forcefully though.
You are correct in your statements regarding the fact that you cannot just go to homebase to pick up a Tonka windscreen, however, if you know where to go, as your friend obviously does, you will see that these items are in plentiful supply and not actually all that expensive, particularly in the case of the scrap Adour stator vanes. Therefore, I was a little shocked to find such a whopping price tag affixed to the items.
I still believe there is enormous scope for your friend to make an enormous success of the business however, and indeed, I have seen some fantastic pieces made over the years from aircraft, and indeed, car engine components. Perhaps he would benefit from employing a designer to come up with some smart designs which he could then build? One of the best pieces I have seen consisted of a Spey turbine disc and LP shaft which was fitted with a glass top and legs, and turned into a table.
As I have said, I apologise for my negativity, however, I feel that at the minute, there is a lot more that could be done before commanding price tags such as those.
FlipflopmanWhat. A. Load. Of. Crap.
I’m awfully sorry if this offends certain people here, but what a complete load of junk. £1000 for an Ikea coffee table with a windscreen jigsawed into it. Seriously!!! 😮 That’s absolutely ridiculous. Certainly there are aircraft and indeed automotive engine components that have been transformed into furniture before now, and they can be stunning objects. But really. With apologies to the original poster, that is just ugly and SERIOUSLY overpriced tat. Does anyone really think any of that would look good in their house!!! 😮
I expect to be flamed into next week now, by well meaning spotters, but please. 🙁
FlipflopmanHi,
The Olympus 20201 fitted to the Vulcan has a fuel burn of 13,950 lbs/hr at maximum power (100-100.5%) at sea level on an ISA standard 15c, 1013.2mb day.
This equates to a rate of 55,800 lbs/hr for a Vulcan with Take Off power selected at the end of the runway. Quite a lot eh!
Quickly crunching a few numbers regarding the fuel burn and using Moggy’s figure of 60p per litre, this equates to £5.24 per second.
To put this into perspective though, in similar circumstances; Max power, lined up on runway etc….. a Tornado GR4 in max reheat is burning 6 gallons of Avtur per second. The Vulcan only burns around 2.
Before anybody gets too excited over the figures and Airshow costs as a result, can I assure you that these figures and resulting costs are well known by the TVOC and have long since been taken into account.
I can assure you that these figures are not dreamt up 😀 As one of the Propulsion engineers on TVOC, these figures have been taken direct from the Operating Manual of the Bristol Olympus and established records.
Thirsty though isn’t she 😀 😀
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanI should perhaps start by saying that I am by no means any kind of ‘structural expert’!!
However, as an Airframe/Propulsion engineer currently rebuilding XH558 at Bruntingthorpe, I am more than familiar with a corroded Vulcan :p
As Peter correctly states, the underside of the wing is a natural trap for moisture, particularly around the panel gaps, and any uncovered rivet heads. Therefore, there tends to be much more corrosion found in these areas. We also had problems where ferrous frames were mated to aluminium skins, in areas such as the NACA ducts in the wing root, and lower fuselage areas. Thankfully on 558, non of this was structural, and the beauty of aluminium corrosion (surely an oxymoron :p ) is that it is easily treatable, and easy to repair. By far and away, the worst area on 558 was the bomb aimers blister. This is the lowest point in the pressure cabin, and also where 40 years worth of spilt drinks, water, moisture and indeed, p1ss!! have been allowed to accumulate. When we removed the UHF aerial, the corrosion under the baseplate had eaten through the skin, and intercostals supporting it. This has required a large repair and the remanufacture of several new intercostals. We also discovered an amount of corrosion around the fwd bomb bay bulkhead. This again was on the lower surfaces of protrusions, and again was fairly simple to rectify.
Undercarriage bays are probably the worst affected, with the majority of Hydraulic and Pneumatic pipes contained requiring replacement due to the union fittings suffering very badly from intergranular corrosion. Wiring has also been badly affected, with pretty much all of it being replaced. The bays in XL360 look very good after their paint job, and I suspect any problem areas have been dealt with.
In all, the corrosion that tends to affect these aircraft can be very easily nipped in the bud by removing it and repainting the affected areas to prevent further damage. Obviously once it has taken hold, it becomes far more difficult, but should still be manageable, and within the grasp of enthusiastic volunteer. Things like undercarriage legs are a different matter, as with the best will in the world, seals will degrade and perish, and eventually the aircraft will bottom out on the oleos, however, basic maintenence should keep degradation at bay for a good while.
As I have said, I am no structural expert, however, with a little TLC and retouching every now and then, there is no reason these aircraft should not last for future generations to enjoy.
Flipflopman
FlipflopmanNot meaning to be pedantic Jagx204, but the green blanking plates you see are actually for the Sundstrand constant speed drive unit, which is still fitted, and is blanked off because the Alternator has been removed. The starters are actually behind the front engine bulkheads you see in the picture, and appear very much present and correct to me.
The forked pipes you see in the picture feed cool air to the CSDU from a NACA duct located under the intakes, through the forward engine bulkhead, into the CSDU. These have nothing to do with inhibiting the engine, and will have simply been removed for access.
Cheers
Flipflopman
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