skypilot621911 edition of flight, BEA cocktail mixing card, Manx Airlines Juice Jug etc. BAe, Manx Airlines, Brit Regional Airlines and BA Citiexpress pilots wings (all earnt & worn by me!)
Safety Cards are always being tea-leafed – the bane of my life when I was Cabin crew. That said, if you ask the crew nicely, generally they’ll let you have it anyway – Hardly secret info! I gave a fair few away as well as sick bags (empty!)
skypilot62Pity Gunther Rall et al didn’t say the same about the photographer!
skypilot62Mine was Biggin Hill in the early 70’s – remember throwing myself to the floor in mock fright (!) as the Red Arrows Gnats flew over. Don’t remember seeing you there though SE5AFAN?!!!;)
Got seriously bitten by the flying bug which hasn’t left me since – Biggin has a lot to answer for!
skypilot62Steve, was it the same group from the “aces” meet Flypast had organised? – would make sense.
Now that really would be a sight to behold – Gunther Rall nattering to Bud Anderson! Mucho respect!
Best I can compare is flying Johnnie Johnson on the jumpseat of an ATP to Manchester (got a great crew photo and he signed our logbooks!)
skypilot62Black ties were worn pre-WW2 but in early 1942, the wool & worsted (not shiny polyester!) black tie was replaced – previously it had been a silk mix, so it is unlikely troops arriving in England in 1943 would still be wearing black ties as they would have been issued the newest depot gear. Perhaps a few old hands would have held on to the black tie as a sort of kudos symbol of regular army service, nbut certainly not the norm. Black tie for dead comrades? A nice idea but sadly would have been impractical. The tie tended to be discarded as soon as possible anyway in the field. Guard duties would mean a particularly “proper” dress standard, so ties at Duxford would be appropriate, but worn done up at the neck!
I’ve been collecting RAF kit for 15+ years and US gear for 5+ years so I’m a bit anal about “correct” kit. “If a job’s worth doing…etc.” Only problem is I’m banned from watching war films with my family due to my constant tutting and much shaking of the head (Battle of Britain being one of the worst offenders!).
skypilot62Super anorak time!
The 2nd photo of RAF bods:
Left: Wearing a 40/41 pattern flying suit, possibly even a 1930 patt – a variation of the pre-war Sidcot suit, 1932 Patt. Mae West, 1943 Patt (Escape) boots (look carefully – you’ll see the top strap is not across the front as per 36 Patt boots). Shame about the nice digital watch – it least that’s what it looks like in the pic.!
Right: Standard Officers service dress cap, 32 patt. Mae West, lobes painted yellow to aid visibilty – a common practice until the all yellow 1941 patt Mae West, 1939 pattern boots (second version – leather top strap).
Slight correction to Firebird’s answers on 1st RAF pic & US pic. (no offence old boy!)
Chap on the right is wearing a late pattern 1941 Patt. Mae west (not Yellow painted, it was made of yellow cotton) and is wearing 1941 patt boots (you can just about make out the ankle strap). Chap on the left is wearing a roll-neck sweater which is technically a FAA/RN issue. Turtle necks were the RAF issue.
US pic – Can’t tell if he’s wearing 1943 patt buckle boots – could be the early war rough-out (i.e. suede side outwards) service shoe – basically a suede ankle boot. Would be more in keeping with the gaiters, M41 jacket etc. He seems to be wearing a black tie which was a no-no, should be tan worsted. Could be just the shadow to be fair – the rest of his kit is spot on so I doubt he’s made such a basic error.
Well, you did ask….!;) 😀
skypilot62Have heard the rumours but wait and see. Remember, Loganair used to operate ATP’s (G-MANB/C and a few others whose id’s I can’t recall – got time on most of them!), so it wouldn’t be so bizarre, plus IOM has a large ATP engineering facility and the ATP carries 68 pax over the Saab’s 30ish.
As they say, “Many a slip between cup & lip”. BACX have made it clear they want all jet fleets asap and if the right deal came up, they’d take it – remember the J41?
I hope it is an ATP deal as my colleagues on Fraggle Rock would be likely safeguarded with their jobs.
Anyone saying for sure one way or the other is also speculating. The new BACX team play VERY tight cards. Often the rumours only come out after the deal has fallen through. My fleet managers seem to be as much in the dark as everyone else, although we all hear the same rumours.
skypilot62Just wishing to play devil’s advocate here…
If it’s so offensive, then why post a picture of it here? Secondly, everyone responding has gawped at it too!
From a valid viewpoint, such photos are an invaluable tool and are used all the time in CRM course, AAIB, emergency services etc. Yes, they can be horrific, but you’ll never stop people taking them. Making money – if that’s your job, what do you do? Sensationalism always has and always will sell (doesn’t make it right of course!).
Taking it further, should there therefore have been a news blackout on 9/11?
As for Comet’s comments, I admire his forthrightness and viewpoint. A lot of us would probably be more base in our instincts.
For the record, I have seen photos of crashes friends were killed in, video footage of the same (remember Air Crash Vol 1 & 2?), murder scene photos (during my old bill days) etc, etc. Whilst they are never pleasant (those who get a kick out of them really do need help) I do think they have a valid use. If you ever needed a reminder of the importance for aviation security, listen to some of the transrcipts from 9/11 aircraft CVR’s etc. Made me sick to my stomach, but brought the point home far more powerfully than reading about it could.
Seeking out such images for a buzz is sick, selling them to such individuals is sick. Using them so others may prevent such incidents again, vital.
Hope that stirs things up nicely!
skypilot62BA don’t own any ab initio flying establishments (Hamble anyone? – I don’t mean the Play School doll either!). They use several, Lake Michigan used to be one, in the past BAe, OAT, Cabair etc.
Didn’t go to uni so can’t help there – not smart enough or rich enough!
skypilot62Sounds like you may be looking at one of the outfits I’ve considerd. Happy to divulge but not publicly. Contact me via e-mail and I’ll let you know what i know (such as it is!). You may be able to fill me in on a few details myself.
PS. Not on TCX60 on 23/07 outbound or TCX60 30/7 inbound?
skypilot62LBARULES – Glad it didn’t send you off to sleep! As an aside, apart from the officer hanger exercises, the selection my Airline ran for sponsorship was administered by the RAF and had a GAPAN involvement too – the upshot meant going to RAF Cranwell for the aptitude tests and interviews, other airlines also use elements of the RAF’s aptitude computer tests under licence at their own facilities.
Wysi – ERJ-145 (although watch this space!) BACX @ MAN
You?
skypilot62LBARULES:
Consider the other advice given and then add in the RAF issues. The selection is similar but quite alot different too. The RAF is used for all service flying selection. They look for officer qualities as well as pilot apptitude so you have to do well in other aspects that may not be so closely looked at by commercial airlines. It’s a very different type of flying too.
My suggestions:
Air Training Corps/CCF (virtually a must), cram everything you can into your time e.g. DofE, camps, sports, AEF flying , leadership courses etc. These all add serious weight to your cause, bearing in mind the age limit for pilot is only 17.5 – 23.5 yrs, so you’ll have a hard time showing much experience with so few years. Highly advise applying for a flying scholarship at 17 and/or a gliding scholarship at 16. Again, free flying plus the flying scholarship selection has some of the elements used for RAF pilot/nav selction so would be a good indicator of your future prospects, without blowing either of your 2 chances to apply “for real”
Min Requirements are 2 A levels and 5 GCSE’s. Bear in mind as for civvy flying, art, drama & home economics won’t be as useful as Physics, Chemistry & Biology. It doesn’t mean they’re better subjects but they do show a track record and aptitude for academic learning and retention. Bear in mind all training establishments, forces or civvy are trying to pick the candidates most likely to pass flying training and academic studies form a large part of this training so they’ll look to keep the risk potential low, hence psychometric tests and aptitude testing.
If you go for a degree, consider a scholarship and the UAS (university air squadron). Whilst a scholarship ( Sixth Form or university) will involve a service commitment, you can join the UAS regardless of whether you want to join the RAF and you get 1st class flying for free.
Keep very up to date on current affairs, by that I don’t mean who’s sleeping with who in Hollywood! Read a quality Broadsheet newspaper. In at least one of the 2 interviews you’ll get at selection, you’ll be asked about one or two major world events, normally of your choosing, and be asked what you know and understand of the situation (in my day it was the post-Gulf war era and Former Yugoslavia). It’s no good trying to BS – they can spot it before you even open your mouth! There’s also a list of recommended books to read before you go, some of which were long out of print so were hard to find (maybe that was part of the aptitude tests?!!)
Don’t believe the old yarn about aceing the aptitude tests by playing PS2 games etc. – it’s big fibs, you’ve either got the skills in you or you haven’t. It’s nigh on impossible to create them if you don’t have them. That said, you don’t need to be Superman either, even I passed, and I didn’t even have an Atari console as a kid! (Although I conned the wife that buying an N64 when they came out might help!!). The tests are in batches and are a mix of computer based questions and problem solving against the clock to test accuracy under pressure. The problems aren’t mega tough but with the clock running it creates stress. Other skills are memory tests, and reactions. Bung in some outdoor pursuit type leadership exercises/problems (which are great fun too!) in the big hangar, a full on medical (cough, cough) and a couple of interviews and you’ve got it sussed. the whole process takes 3 days at RAF Cranwell (RAF Biggin Hill when I went for selection) and you can be chopped at any stage. Even if you stay till the end, it doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve passed. You still have to wait a couple of weeks to see if you’ve been accepted.
I’m not trying to put you off, but just help you realise it is VERY tough, but not impossible. All RAF aircrew are human bings (well, most of them) and are on the whole very ordinary to speak to and meet. You’ve as much chance as the next person. Just concentrate on your schooling for now, and cross the other bridges as they come, but I cannot over recommend the ATC or CCF as a foot in the proverbial door.
And for the record, I did pass OASC! (twice in fact…another story!)
Anyone still awake and wanting more info, feel free to contact me or check out the RAF careers office and website – I’m sure alot of the info can be found there.
skypilot62Just to add my tuppence worth…
I too wanted to fly from about 3 years old (can’t remember a time when I didn’t want to be a pilot), and despite the obstacles in your way the only thing preventing you from acheiving it will be your determination. The sight of flying home over the Alps at 37,000′ never gets boring!
Some suggestions:
As recommended, sponsership is the way to go if you can. The main advantage I feel is the guarantee of a job. On my course at Bae some 5 years ago, out of 16 only around 5 or 6 have flying jobs, the rest are still looking or failed to qualify. I was fortunate and had sponsorship.
At 14, I’d recommend the Air training Corps, not becauuse you need to, but it gets you more flying opportunities and it’s good for the CV – shows you’ve done something different from the bus-stop lads who “fancy flying a ‘plane” (It is ALWAYS an aeroplane or aircraft, never a ‘plane!).
Education – minimum is 5 GSCE’s in English Maths & Physics, usually 2 Alevels and a relevant degree won’t hurt either! The more Maths & Physics, the easier you’ll find the ATPL exams!
Speak to as many professional aircrew as possible, i.e. people doing the job you want to do. Inside knowledge is very useful, but listen, don’t be a know-it-all. Most of us, and ,my colleagues love to talk “shop” to genuine enthusiastic “wannabes” (We all were once!). It’s the weird anoraks who worry me (“Ah yes, I’ve flown to Geneva. Can be a bit tricky can’t it? (Turns out he has FS 2000))
Above all, if you really want it, go for it. It took me until i was 26 to get what i wanted, but the slog is worth it and i never gave up.
Feel free to e-mail me if you want any more info. I’m sure most others would encourage the same.
skypilot62RE: planes
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-02-03 AT 01:05Â PM (GMT)]Favourite A/c based on what?
Fast Jet: Hunter (for beautiful looks)
Vintage Military: Spitfire (for looks); Mosquito (for Performance); Beaufighter (for just shear brute strength and ability)
Commercial: DC3/C47 (for looks); B777 for pax and flight deck
To fly: Jestream J41 (in my experience only – commercial jets are all well and good but not so fun to “fly”!) e.g. Cat II approach into MAN last night in an EMB-145 Barbie Jet is nowhere near as fun as a visual approach onto 27/09 at Jersey in a J41 behind the BBMF Lanc on a run-in break (Jersey airshow Aug. 2000)!
skypilot62RE: What ‘planes are stored at your neares big airport ?
The DC10 at MAN has now gone! No idea where, perhaps to the desert as mentioned?
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