I don’t want to know how often the Ukrainian Flankers get washed! Let’s have some cold, hard data on how many are airworthy and how many hours their pilots log a year! The Flanker pilot I spoke to at SIAD ’02 smiled when I asked if it was more than 30 hours per year as if to say “I wish…”

How many Ukrainian Tu-22M are left? I thought they were all scrapped, or grounded now?

A report yesterday stated that several of the Ukrainian AF IL-78 tankers had been DE-converted back to cargo configuration because they don’t have enough aircraft to tank!

Why on Earth do you assume that I am even trying to compare the UK assets with Russia’s? All I’m doing is asking for some FACTS and figures! The current OrBat of the Russian AF is a lot clearer now than it used to be, but how many a/c are airworthy and how many hours do the pilots log? In earlier threads after the Tu-160 crash it was certainly obvious to me that it’s a pitiful amount compared to NATO standards.

To back-up Phil’s point about the Tornado IDS, the report dates back to the time when the RAF were still using the BL755 munition. I think in this day and age of Storm Shadow, Paveway and Brimstone things are VERY different to even 10/15 years ago.

Now a specific question for Aurel or Seahawk: Aurel, I’m well aware that Germany funded both T-37 and T-38 trainers back in the 1960s (as part of the F-104 training programme) but were SPECIFIC airframes actually purchased? If they were I certainly haven’t ever seen a list of either. My point was that the German AF T-38 programme is integrated into NATO’s to such an extent that I had never thought of it as a German “asset”.

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

I think I remember that it was said that the French Mirage 2000 used to beat the Tornados in many exercices.
But anyway it is true that many people seem to underestimate the air-to-air capabilities of the Tornado, I dont think an AMRAAM equiped Tornado fleet would be so useless as some seem to think.

Absolutely, Gui…The F.3 has never, and will never, be a successful WVR dog-fighter. I’d want to be in an M2K every time in that situation, although I’m sure ASRAAM has improved the F.3’s capability. The RAF know the F.3’s days are numbered: helmet mounted sights aren’t being integrated because the cost doesn’t justify it as a short-term solution with Typhoon on the horizon.

Tony, you’ll know far more about this than I ever will, but can’t the F.3s stay in “passive” mode and make use of the AWACS’ ESM facilities to gain targets and engage them with all data being passed (securely) via JTIDS?

If this is the case, which I believe it is, the raw figures are that the RAF has 7 E-3D AWACS and 100 F.3s that have had the CSP/JTIDS etc. upgrades. I think that’s quite a tidy package to call upon, even compared to France’s 4 E-3F AWACS and 40 M2K-5.

Oh, and Germany got own trainers, T-38 in Sheppard. The are owned by Germany, but sport for some juristical reason USAF-markings. (As well as the German Phantoms in Hollowman)

80th Flying Training Wing

The 80th Flying Training Wing at Sheppard Air Force Base, TX, conducts the Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training Program (ENJJPT), sponsored by the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. The 55-week program is designed to produce pilots qualified for assignment to fighter aircraft.

The 80th FTW conducts pilot training while the 82nd Flying Training Wing conducts all technical training at the base.

While the ENJJPT program began in 1981, other flying training had an earlier start.

The 3630th Flying Training Wing, which was later to become the 80th, was activated December 10, 1965, and assumed the helicopter training program. It began providing undergraduate pilot training in the T-37 and T-38 for the German Air Force in August 1966.

The 3630th Flying Training Wing provided undergraduate pilot training for the Vietnamese Air Force from July 1971 to April 1975.

The wing designation was changed to the 80th Flying Training Wing in January 1973.

The 80th Flying Training Wing began conducting Euro-NATO Joint Jet Pilot Training on October 1, 1981. This unique program provides fighter-oriented pilot training for 13 NATO countries. They are: Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, the United Kingdom and the United States.

In 1987, the short-term solution at Sheppard was extended an additional two years from 1991 to 1993 to facilitate further study on relocation to a European base. In 1989 the program was again extended, this time until the year 2005.

The ENJJPT program trains approximately 250 undergraduate pilots each year. Nine participating nations have students and instructors in the program: Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Turkey, and the United States. Four others – Canada, Greece, Portugal, and the United Kingdom – contribute instructor pilots to the multinational staff.

The 80th FTW is a multinational organization comprised of 13 nations and charted to produce fighter pilots for NATO. This is a fully integrated staff of 1,300 military, civilian, and contractor personnel, employing 221 T-37, T-38, and AT-38 aircraft flying over 86,000 hours each year.

Approximately 50 percent of the student pilots and instructors are from the U.S. Air Force. In addition to undergraduate pilot training, the 80th Flying Training Wing began to host the Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals program on January 7, 1994. This program is a six-week course introducing basic fighter maneuvers to pilot training graduates who have been assigned to fly fighter-type aircraft. The programs transitions up to 150 pilots yearly.

The 80th also operates its own pilot instructor training and introduction to fighter fundamentals programs. The pilot instructor training program produces approximately 100-120 new instructors each year in support of the undergraduate pilot training and fighter fundamentals programs. The introduction to fighter fundamentals program graduates 110 students annually.

The 80th FTW is commanded by a U.S. Air Force colonel, and the second-in-command, the operations group commander, is a German Air Force colonel. Officers from the full range of participants fill the remainder of operational supervisory positions. This includes squadron commanders, operations officers, flight commanders and wing staff officers from all 13 participating ENJJPT nations.

As a result of this totally integrated structure, an U.S. Air Force second lieutenant student pilot may have a Belgian flight instructor, a Dutch flight commander, a Greek section commander, an Italian operations officer and a German squadron commander. Training is conducted in English, which is the international language of aviation.

The ENJJPT syllabus differs from other U.S. Air Force undergraduate pilot training programs. It includes 256 flying hours compared to approximately 206 for the other programs. The additional hours are used to achieve special skills needed to prepare the student pilot for follow-on training in a wide variety of fighter aircraft, as well as for the weather conditions experienced in the European Theater of Operations.

Maintenance for the T-37 and T-38 aircraft used in the ENJJPT program is provided by civilian contract. This arrangement was found to be more cost effective since the contractor can focus the efforts of a stable, experienced work force solely on aircraft maintenance tasks. Total program costs are shared by member nations, as each pays a prorated portion of the expenses based on its level of participation.
—

Yep, there are GAF Phantoms (and also Tornadoes) at Holloman AFB, but there is no way in the World that you can compare that stand-alone German unit (GAF/FTC = German Air Force Flying Training Center) with the ENJJPT at Sheppard!!

I’m talking about a complete training syllabus from ab-initio to OCU.

What on Earth is all this about “Ukraine”?! Anybody here that’s mentioned them even know how many serviceable jets they have?! To be honest, the same goes for Russia.

Greece certainly deserves a mention. Actually, Seahawk’s league table is pretty much how I’d view the current state of play.

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

French long-range strategic transports? French transport helos? French tactical airlift? French CAS as good as Harrier GR.7? Anything French up to the GR.4?

I’ll give you the two squadrons of M2K-5 as being fantastic A2A assets (you can keep the unupgraded Mirage 2000C variants, thanks), but I wouldn’t swap anything else that the RAF have, or have planned in future, for the counterparts across La Manche.

The problem with a lot of people’s opinion is that it’s shaped by fast jets and WVR dog-fighting capabilities. :rolleyes:

Steve ~ Touchdown-News

Reports were actually retracted overnight……

U.S. dismisses S.Korea spy plane report
Fri 9 July, 2004 05:38

SEOUL (Reuters) – The U.S. military says South Korean media had wrongly reported an American U-2 spy plane had crashed.

The local media later issued retractions of their reports that the surveillance plane went down on Friday morning in Kyonggi province south of Seoul.

“We have no reports of an incident involving an aircraft,” a U.S. Air Force spokesman told Reuters on Friday.

“Our operations folks say all our aircraft are accounted for,” he said.

Money Today online news agency and Yonhap news agency issued the reports about a crash but a spokesman for the Combined Forces Command of the U.S. and South Korean military said senior officers met and concluded the reports were wrong.

Yonhap said in its retraction the mistake stemmed from a misunderstanding in communications between the South Korean military and the U.S. forces after reporters had asked South Korean authorities about rumours of a plane crash.

The United States has 37,500 troops based in South Korea to bolster the South’s 650,000-strong military and act as a deterrent to North Korea, whose military totals more than one million personnel.

The United States has maintained a large force in South Korea since the 1950-53 Korean War.

Although the U.S. military does not reveal details of its air surveillance operations, about a dozen American and South Korean spy planes take turns maintaining a continuous watch on North Korea, sources familiar with the operations said.

Two-thirds of the North’s military are deployed in forward positions near the heavily fortified Demilitarised Zone that bisects the Korean peninsula.

The Stalinist North and the capitalist South are technically in a state of war, because the 1950-53 Korean War ended with an armistice that has never been replaced by a peace treaty.

Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News

Jan,

I went back and re-checked that lonely-looking UH-1M that appeared in the MAP list, and I can’t find an obvious error or problem with it.

In case someone had transposed the sub-type incorrectly I checked its US DoD NSN (National Stock Number) which was 1520-00-809-2631: this does indeed refer to the UH-1M model specifically.

I’ve attached a ZIP file which gives a breakdown of all the details I have for that transfer (includes some explanations too) in the form of an Excel spreadsheet zipped inside. Use the password of Laos to extract it.

If needed for reference purposes I should be able to provide similar files for just about any of those batches in the list: some aren’t always as detailed as others, however.

Hope this helps.

Steve ~ Touchdown-News