Steve TouchdownI think you must be referring to the Do217E (Werk Nr 4592) at Bletchingley* & the Do217K (4510) down at Detling on the 9th July 1943? (Location from ‘The Blitz, Then & now V3). The Bletchingley Dornier was ‘recovered’ by Ken Anscombe. Relics are also on display at the Warplane Wreck Investigation Museum.
Geoff.
I think you must be referring to the Do217E (Werk Nr 4592) at Bletchingley* & the Do217K (4510) down at Detling on the 9th July 1943? (Location from ‘The Blitz, Then & now V3). The Bletchingley Dornier was ‘recovered’ by Ken Anscombe. Relics are also on display at the Warplane Wreck Investigation Museum.
Geoff.
Thanks for that, Geoff, that is certainly the one I was thinking of.
July 9th 1943 was the same day the Whitehall Cinema in East Grinstead was bombed, killing 108 people and injuring another 235. I remember reading the debate at the time of discovery about the Do217 at Bletchingley and if this was the aircraft and crew responsible. An eyewitness at the time had said they believed it was a Junkers 88 that bombed the cinema but this following news item from last year seems to have returned to the Do217 theory:
Service Marks 60th Anniversary of Cinema Bombing
If I remember correctly, the crew were all still inside the Do217 that came down at Bletchingley and they were buried at St.Mary’s Church in Caterham. Somebody then must have had a change of mind because I seem to recall the Dornier crew, and that of a Junkers Ju88 that came down on the recreation ground here in Caterham-on-the-Hill, being exhumed and returned to Germany a short time later.
Geoff, is there anything in the book that gives a date for Ken Anscombe’s “recovery” of the Do217E or any further details?
If all the above is incorrect I apologise, but it’s all up there in my bonce so my recollection could well be flawed! 😮
Cheers
Steve
p.s. will have to pop along and see you one Sunday: I used to live up towards the top end of the Darent Valley and we still go over to Kingfisher Bridge and Lullingstone for the odd constitutional.
Steve TouchdownWhat the document says is that XI will disband in Oct 2005, and Leeming will cease Tornado flying in 2008, due to reduced requirement for Air Defence squadrons. Presumably this is when 25 replace their F3s with Typhoons (or disband as another Typhoon Squadron becomes operational and the last F3s are retired)
Therefore, can we presume that Leeming won’t become a Typhoon base?
The required 3 AD squadrons will therefore presumably be 2 Typhoon squadrons at Leuchars and one at Coningsby
I wonder where the ground attack / multirole Typhoon squadrons will be based?
Aha…thanks for that, Mike…that all makes sense now.
Yes, agreed, two Typhoon AD Squadrons at Leuchars to replace their F.3s “like-for-like” and one at Coningsby (along with the OCU) leaving Leeming free of AD assets. I suppose it would then make most sense to base the other Typhoon units there, in time.
I wonder if 6 Squadron standing-down at Coningsby in 2007 is significant with a future Typhoon unit asuming their mantle a year or two later?
Cheers
Steve
Steve TouchdownJust thinking (dangerous I know :rolleyes: ) but is the Typhoon (that word Hoon again :rolleyes: ) supposed to be replacing all versions of the Tornado in all roles….?
Only, with so few AD squadrons going to left after this round of cuts and pressumably only the 1 ex-Jag squadron to remain in existance (convert to Typhoon..?) with 200+ Typhoons ordered, what are they going to do with them all…… :confused:Going to be just like after the war with new planes being delivered straight into storage from the production line, assuming that they ever manage to make that many Typhoons that actually work of course…… :rolleyes:
No, not all Tornadoes: only the F.3 ADVs…the GR.4/4A will be around for quite some time to come yet (2020+ possibly)
The plan, as of a year or so ago, was to have 4 pure air defence squadrons of Typhoon, 2 “swing-role” (ie trained & tasked for both air defence and air-to-ground) and one purely “mud moving” squadron. Add an OCU to those 7 units, presuming one OCU will cover all roles.
Have I missed something with regard to 25 Squadron at Leeming? I thought there was a post saying fast jet ops would cease there in 2008 when XI Squadron stand-down….:confused:
Steve
Steve TouchdownSteve mate – Ever heard the Saying “Gone Fishing?” 😀
…hence the Troll tag. He’s been trolling elsewhere if you’ve missed him…
Steve TouchdownIt is a good article and seriously true.. No reason to get excited..
Yeah, whatever you say Flex :rolleyes:
I’ll leave you to pick out the parts that the French Troll added to the original article (easy to spot: his English is cr@p).
Steve Touchdownvon Perthes might be able to find out some more details on this, but the closest incident I can recall to the one described could be the Dornier 217 that was “discovered” in about 1980 when they were clearing woods for the M25. I’m pretty sure it was at the bottom of White Hill, between Caterham and Bletchingley in Surrey…not that far from where Clackets Lane service area is (junctions 5 to 6).
I seem to remember it was one of a pair of Dorniers shot down on the same day in 1943 in this area.
Cheers
Steve
Steve TouchdownBut it’s not operational as in having a permanent squadron(s) which is what we were refering to.
Hey, don’t let 615 VGS hear that…they’ll be most upset! 😀
Going back to Coltishall though, the RAF bod interviewed on the TV said it was the last BofB fighter airfield with a BofB squadron plate based.
Jaguar’s can’t really be described as ‘fighters’, and if so, Northolt has 32 Sqn., and what about Wittering, that was a 12 Group airfield during the Battle wasn’t it…..and weren’t those Harrier Sqn.’s in the BofB…..???? :confused:
He’s probably right, Firebird: only 20(R) Squadron are based at Wittering now that 1 Squadron moved to Cottesmore. Colt has both 41 and 54 Squadrons (both BoB units with 13 & 12 Groups respectively) so I can see what he was getting at.
Not that all really matters anymore as it seems the RAF will almost cease to exist by the end of the decade 🙁
Personally speaking, I don’t think things are anywhere near as gloomy as some seem to think. Of course it is very different when you are directly involoved or it affects people you know or have worked with. It’s also sad to see yet another airfield go in East Anglia, but that’s been on the cards since it was confirmed Colt wouldn’t be getting Typhoons.
One thing I haven’t seen anywhere is what people would have proposed as an alternative to yesterday’s announcements. I suspect many on forums such as these would increase defence spending to £60 billion/5% of our GDP etc. but, being realistic, has anybody really considered any alternatives? I think RobAnt made just about the most pertinent points in his earlier postings. Today’s situation is nothing like the 1930s: there is nobody out there spending vast sums on defence or re-arming…except for the Americans.
Cheers
Steve
Steve TouchdownNortholt is still under RAF control as far as I’m aware.
Technically-speaking so is Kenley…at least the actual airfield itself is MoD land under RAF control.
Steve
Steve TouchdownFantastic post, as usual, from the French Troll Extraordinaire.
The piece is lifted wholesale from an Austrian forum. It dates back to March 1st and was written by a BBC news reporter with absolutely no specialist aerospace or aviation knowledge (surprised, aren’t you!?).
Bang “David Lomax” and BBC into Google and you’ll see he’s far better at writing about GM crops and cricket.
Talking about air force farces….I see from the latest copy of “Air Fan” that there is STILL not a single new Rafale in sight!
Where are they hiding the French wonder-jets, PILOTGHT?! Certainly not at Merignac, Istres or Mont de Marsan 😀 😮 😀 :rolleyes:
Salut!
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownAt the Typhoon’s Operational Employment Date of 1 January 2006, the aircraft was expected to be the RAF’s “Air Defence Fighter of choice for deployed operations, able to operate in four-ship formations with active BVR AAMs and ASRAAMs, and to have an air defence capability that was at least equivalent to that offered by the Tornado F.Mk 3,” according to the RAF’s specification.
This was an exceptionally ambitious target, since today’s JTIDS-equipped Tornado F.Mk 3 is an extremely capable air defence aircraft, and one that will be ‘hard to beat’ in many respects.
Flight Daily News – 20th July, 2004
RAF Tornado F.3 fitted with JTIDS controlled by RAF AWACS fitted with ESM have defeated USAF F-15s in exercises using JTIDS. The AWACS would use its radar and ESM to detect targets, pass the information over JTIDS. The Tornado F.3 would stay passive (leave radars off) and get into AMRAAM launch parameters without activating radars. The USAF F-15s had little or no warning.
From: “Situation Awareness in Air Combat”
Phil, you’d better hope the Tories don’t get in: the only parts of the recent spending plan they have agreed to keep in place are for health and education. So you can strike the £3.9 billion increase allocated to defense for 2008 straight away.
By the way, why do you blame the elected government for the farce that surrounds major project procurement?
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownFirst pic posted = VMA-211 AV-8B Harrier IIs on the Bonhomme Richard.
Sweet dreams, All!
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownFrank: Saudis also have the ADV. You’ll often see reference to them having “big problems” with them…but never any info on what they supposedly are.
ohadbx: yes, the AMI are taking their last 60 Starfighters out of service (well, what remains of the F-104S-ASA/M conversions anyway) but their earlier F-104Gs/TF-104Gs/RF-104Gs/F-104S and even F-104ASA have been out of service for a LONG time now. Some went via CFE and were cut-up starting around 1993/4.
I’m not talking about just a few either: off the top of my head the AMI must have already disposed of around 200 Starfighters before the last batch of ASA/Ms go for good. In the space of five days last May (2003) I saw well over 100 different Starfighters in Italy without trying TOO hard.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownNice pics Steve, they certainly are beasts, Oh what i’d give to see one up close and personal. This one looks like it’s a Ukrainian one, the Greek ones have the Greek flag painted on them.
From what I know it’s the third for Greece (keel laid-down in Jan 2003) and this pic was taken a couple of weeks back in St.Petersburg (ie at the shipyard). It looks like number 4 is taking-shape over in the background of the first shot.
Unless the Ukrainians have an order for brand-new ones built at St.Petersburg?! :confused:
Cheers
Steve
Steve TouchdownI wonder were they would get the Saab 2000 airframes from. Is it not out of production?
SAAB Finance own about 280 SAAB 2000 & 340 airframes, Seahawk.
I don’t know an awful lot about civil aviation, but with the advent of aircraft like the ERJ and CRJ a lot of commuter lines are divesting even recently-built turboprops like the SAABs.
I don’t keep up-to-date with what surplus airframes are sitting in the Arizona desert at storage airfields like Kingman or Marana, but I shouldn’t think that the airframes will be hard to acquire whatsoever. I can’t recall seeing that “new-build” airframes have been mentioned have they…just that they will be supplied by SAAB?
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownFrench AF used 45 combat jets in Kosovo (according to Janes http://www.janes.com/defence/news/kosovo/jdw990602_01_n.shtml) comprising MF1s, M2000D and C´s, Jaguars. Just three more than RAF used.
A-29, you only have to go to the link that the awfully clever little Indian fellow posted to see the actual figures of combat aircraft involved: just scroll down to the section headed “Belgium” (don’t ask me why it’s called that…it’s a pretty badly put-together piece of HTML all round). A lot of that French total of “84” quoted must have been UAVs, evidently.
You’ll also find a chart (that’s messed up a little) showing which countries flew which types of sortie. Here you’ll find the French flew 458 CAP missions against “the non-existent Serbian AF” whilst the RAF/RN flew 148. No, I have absolutely no idea what the relevance of that was either, but I thought I’d humour the clever little chap as it might make him happy for a short while.
There’s nothing funnier than people who don’t have a clue what they’re talking about cherry-picking stats to try and prove some spurious point they’ve dreamed-up.
Toodle-pip
Steve
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