Steve TouchdownJohn,
ta for the reports you posted: at least some news, albeit all at once!
I found the first report you posted above, with the following added on at the end (via FT):
There are increasing fears that negotiations will not be completed in time to move smoothly from the first tranche of 148 jets, currently in production, to the second batch. Any gap in production would lead to huge additional costs as plants are mothballed and employees placed on leave as they await a restart.
Part of the reason for the delay, participants said, was the complicated nature of the talks, in which the national governments negotiate with their respective defence companies, at the same time a combined procurement agency, Netma, deals with Eurofighter GmbH.
The restructuring will give Eurofighter increased power in all parts of the negotiations, in essence taking part of the prime contractor role from BAE, EADS and Alenia. Eurofighter will also take over greater responsibility for production of the aircraft. “Eurofighter will grow to be the main contractor,” it said. At present there are separate Eurofighter assembly lines in each country, and there are a number of other duplications throughout the project.
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownBritain, Germany could reduce order for Eurofighter: report
Britain and Germany could reduce the number of Eurofighter combat aircraft they have ordered, according to a report in an influential German weekly due to be published on Saturday 21st Feb.
Britain has ordered 232 Eurofighter jets but sources the magazine Der Spiegel refers to as “experts in the German lower house of parliament” have detected several indications that London may reduce that number.
A British defence ministry spokesman denied the claim: “Negotiations are continuing but we have signed a promise to purchase for 232 aircraft with our partners and we are committed to that,” he said.
According to the sources cited by Der Spiegel, British Defence Minister Geoff Hoon has said he wants production to be slowed and has demanded that a plan to equip the jets with precision weapons be brought forward.
For his part German Defence Minister Peter Struck promised Hoon he would examine a request from London to “change the programme,” the magazine cited its sources as saying.
Der Spiegel said Berlin could also reduce its order for 180 Eurofighters to 140 because of financial constraints, the weekly says.
Germany agreed last year to purchase 180 Eurofighters to be delivered between now and 2015 — the most expensive arms deal in German armed forces history.
In all 620 aircraft have been ordered by Britain, Germany, Italy, and Spain. Austria has also decided to buy 18 of the jets.
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownITALIAN AIR FORCE, FIRST EUROFIGHTER IN SERVICE
(AGI) – Rome, 20 Feb – The first Italian-produced “Typhoon” Eurofighter entered service yesterday. The Italian air force has concluded their agreement with Alenia Aeronautica – a Finmeccanica company co-producer of the aircraft – to accept the first model, which will carry out personnel training missions at the aircraft maintenance division in the Cameri (Novara) base.
The “Typhoon” delivered – a two-seater known as IT001 – is the first of the Eurofighter Italian series (29 out of the 121 planned in total). Another three aircraft are ready to be accepted by the air force. The second two-seater model, known as IT002, will soon be in service at the Fourth Flight centre at the Grosseto base. The Eurofighter, developed and produced in Italy by Alenia Aeronautica and Avio S.p.A. (for the airframe and the engines respectively) is a superior fighter plane destined to replace the F-104 in defence tasks in national air space. The plane, able to carry out ground attack missions, has a range of 3,200 Km, can be refuelled in the air and is equipped with latest generation weapons (radar guided and infra-red air-to-air missiles, Mauser cal. 27mm cannons and various air to ground weapons). The plane has two turbofan Euroject EJ200 jet engines, with a maximum speed of Mach 2, 15.96 metres long and 5.28 metres high, with a wing span of 10.95 metres and weighs in empty at 11,150 kilos (23,500 maximum weight at take-off). A total production of 620 models is planned, Germany (180), Great Britain (232), Italy (121) and Spain (87). The Eurofighter has also been order by the Austrian air force and selected by Greece and Singapore.
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownHi JWC,
do you think that “Tranche 1” would include IPAs and even the prototypes? If not then the definition of “built” is open to some very imaginative interpretation!!
Cheers
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
p.s. okay, okay finally a comment on the “ownership” issue: don’t the aircraft actually BELONG to the Defence Procurement Agency (ie the old MoD(PE))?
Steve TouchdownYeah, the F-104 was the dog’s danglers, but it had to be the old D and G models didn’t it, Art? The re-engined ASA/ASA-M don’t sound much like the “real” thing at all!
When the single stage afterburner on the Fitter cracks in that sure does make a lovely sound. When the burners on the B-1B cut in that too sounds pretty amazing: spent the morning at Dyess AFB one time and left very impressed. I think MiG-31 has to be one of the loudest I’ve ever heard.
My own personal faves still remain F-111E/F Aardvarks here in the UK at Upper Heyford and Lakenheath: you hear the soud from the feet first then upwards.
Of the most modern jets I reckon the Typhoon comes out just about on top: sounds great using all the power on tap to climb-out from a flat attitude at low speeds.
Last, but by no means least, the wonderful Lightning…ahhhhhhhhhhhh 😎
Cheers
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownHi Phil,
all of the Typhoons are marked-up with either their line/construction numbers and/or their RAF serials. There weren’t any missing (besides there’s nowehere to hide ’em!) and I saw all the ones I was after. 😎
If you mean the supplement that came with AFM, yeah I’ve got that and think Mark Nicholls at Key did a great job with it. I’ve not seen anywhere in there though which stated there were such a large number of Typhoons ready for delivery. Go back to Distiller’s first post in this thread and I’d say his figures would be pretty accurate. Remember that “final assembly” takes anything up to a year.
I think the figure of 13 that the guy mentions on the URL you included is probably for the number of Typhoons that entered final assembly with BAE during 2003. That would be about right if BT001-003 started final assembly in 2002.
I hope all that makes sense!
Cheers
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownIf you’ve read that somewhere (and I don’t doubt that you have) then the author needs shooting!
A group of us had a complete tour of the factory at the back end of last year and only missed one Typhoon (it was undergoing radiation trials) but only 3 or 4 on the line were anywhere near completed. The first for the RAF had already been delivered, the second was awaiting signing-off and the third was more-or-less completed. I would imagine that, by now, numbers four to six were coming close to completion but that’s pure speculation on my part.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
(still waiting for those Rafale numbers! 😀 )
Steve TouchdownPhil,
the RAF has TWO…3rd will be delivered anytime now.
Cheers
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
p.s. there seems to have been some sort of positive announcement made in Germany today regarding commitment to all of their planned Eurofighter orders, but the only link I’ve found so far is to a subscription-only page. seahawk?!
Steve TouchdownHi Vortex/seahawk
I went the logical (or so I thought!) route and tried to work out the cost of a brand-spanking new OH-58D(R) but failed dismally…too many variables and complicated contracts come into play.
So, thinking laterally, I went the converse route and found that if you crashed a fresh OH-58D(R) when they were first coming on-line back in 1999/2000 it would represent $6,276,000 to the tax payer. So, yes, pretty expensive but around a quarter of the cost of an AH-64D Longbow.
It’s been almost three years since I had my last big tour of ArNG facilities, seahawk, and the CAV units equipped with Cobras back then were expecting that the Delta Kiowas would be “cascaded down” once Comanche came on-stream. It’s not been easy to find out one way or the other if that is still a concrete plan, or not, but I found this dated as recently as December 2003:
Aviation in Transition
DARNG’s Aviation Staff is actively participating in the CSA’s recently established Aviation Task Force (TF) Focus Area
The previously approved 2002 Army Aviation Transformation (AAT) plan had major impacts on ARNG aviation but was an acceptable cost for modernization:
— Structure – Lost 1 BN HQ and 30 Companies
— Personnel – Lost 500+ pilots, but mainly offset by enlisted gains
— Aircraft – Accelerated retirement of AH-1/UH-1/OH-58, but scheduled quicker cascades of AH-64/UH-60/OH-58D from AC to ARNG
There are major changes to the ArNG organisation underway at present, no doubt interrupted by world-wide commitments, which will probably take some time to become fully apparent.
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News________
Steve TouchdownVortex, definitely correct about the “Block III” upgrade to the Longbow Apaches: I think I actually posted that here a while ago so it may even be where you saw it.
You’re also correct about the respective loads of earlier helos like the Loach and even the Kiowa Warrior compared to Comanche: even the OH-58D has to trade “bullets for fuel” and I’ve asked more than one Kiowa Warrior crew this, which they confirmed.
The AH-6J is still a pretty special chopper, and the latest AH-6M even better equipped. Still to see full spec on the M version, but the following comes from the J model:
The AH-6J is capable of mounting a variety of weapons systems. Normal aircraft configuration consists of two 7.62mm miniguns with 1500 to 2000 rounds per gun, and two seven-shot 2.75″ rocket pods. The following are additional configurations:
The M134 7.62mm Minigun is a 6 barrel, air-cooled, link-fed, electrically driven Gatling gun, with a 1,000 meter maximum effective range and a tracer burnout at 900 meters. The weapon has a rate of fire of 2,000 or 4,000 rounds per minute. The ammo can, 2 per aircraft, holds a maximum of 2625 rds of ball, tracer, low light tracer, or Sabot Launched Armor Piercing (SLAP) ammo.
M261 7 tube Rocket Launcher. This system fires a 2.75″ Folding Fin Aerial Rocket (FFAR) with a variety of special purpose warheads, including: 10 lb. and 17 lb. high explosive (HE) warheads for light armor and bunker penetration (bursting radius of 8-10 meters for a 10 lb. warhead, 12-15 meters for the 17 lb. warhead), with either proximity or contact fuse; the anti-personnel flechette warhead, filled with 2,200 flechettes; white phosphorous; white and IR illumination warheads, providing up to 120 seconds of overt light or 180 seconds of IR light; the Multi-Purpose Sub-Munitions (MPSM) warhead, containing 9 submunitions which are effective against light armor and personnel; and a warhead containing the CS riot control agent. The 2.75″ FFAR can be used as a point target weapon at ranges from 100 to 750 meters and an area fire weapon at ranges up to 7000 meters.
M260 Rocket Launcher. 19 shot 2.75 FFAR rocket pod; all other data is the same as above.
AGM-114 Hellfire. The Hellfire is a 100 lb. semi-active laser guided missile, capable of defeating any known armor. Missile launchers attach to the aircraft in pairs and are mounted on the outboard stores. Each launcher can hold two missiles, for a total of four missiles. The minimum engagement range is .5 KM to a maximum of 8 KM. The missile can be designated by any ground or air NATO standard laser designator, including the AESOP FLIR (if available).
.50 Cal Machine Gun or 40mm MK 19 Automatic Grenade Launcher may be substituted for 7.62mm minigun in some configurations.
Normal engagement ranges are:
Minigun 100 to 750 meters.
2.75″ FFAR 100 to 600 meters (in direct fire mode).
Hellfire Missiles 800 to 8000 meters.
NOTE: Due to weight restrictions, armament/ammunition loads and fuel may have to be adjusted to achieve the necessary range/endurance and weapons loads called for by the mission.
Personally speaking I can’t wait to see CAV units getting the RAH-66 and handing-down their OH-58D Warriors to the Guard and Reserve who are simply crying out for ANY kind of helicopters at all at the moment!!
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownI s’pose it just goes to prove that no “long-shot” is too great as, posted by Mick Freer on Touchdown-News earlier this evening, was the following info:
I guess quite a few of you saw the massive trails the F-15s were leaving enroute the Wales MTA. The following should tie up a few callsigns.
Panther 23-24 2 x F-15E to Aberporth range on 247.275 @ 1100. Probably the huge ‘ S ‘ trail that everyone in the Midlands saw. 494 FS.
Hope this helps!
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownOriginally posted by BME330
From Morocco, this pic i believe is from Steve Touchdown, not sure, but almost
It sure was, BME330…the JPO at Avord in France back in 2000. There’s another there this year.
Saludas!
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownWell I guess if you accept that US Special Operations Command (SOCOM) is multi-service then in a way the SEALS have CASA 212s I guess!
They’re actually operated by USAF and Army though, at Fort Bragg and Laguna Army Airfield in the Yuma Proving Ground. Nothing especially “spooky” about these as they spend alomost all their time para-dropping.
They had six and one was sold leaving five still in service.
Cheers
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve Touchdownhi seahawk
there won’t be any more OH-58D(I) (I=Improved) than there already are: all of the conversions from OH-58D to OH-58D(I) were finished several years ago. The latest funding has been for the SEP (Safety Enhancement Program) and slightly uprated Rolls Royce engines which takes it to OH-58D(R) standard. That is still underway but won’t result in any more numbers of OH-58D(R) than there were OH-58D(I) models. In actual fact the total will be quite a lot lower due to the high rate of attrition: although several have been lost in hostile incidents in Iraq the accident rate was already high.
These are the OH-58D(I) batches and totals:
89-0112 to 89-0117 (6)
90-0346 to 90-0381 (36)
91-0536 to 91-0571 (36)
92-0518 to 92-0545 (28)
92-0571 to 92-0606 (36)
93-0935 to 93-1008 (74)
94-0050 to 94-0064 (15)
94-0149 to 94-0186 (38)
95-0002 to 95-0039 (38)
95-0072 to 95-0087 (16)
96-0009 to 96-0041 (33)
96-0113 to 96-0129 (17)
97-0124 to 97-0136 (13)
97-1321 to 97-1330 (10)
Total = 396
From this total you then have to subtract those lost to attrition plus further examples like the nine GOH-58D (permanent ground instruction airframes) and oddities like JOH-58D models permanently assigned to test units at Fort Rucker or with Bell Helicopters. I’d imagine at any given time around 300 Kiowa Warriors were normally “available” for deployment.
The only “OH-6” models involved in Somalia were the Nightstalkers’ A/MH-6 variant. Definitely unsuitable for the primarily urban ops undertaken with no element of surprise available in that scenario. I don’t know I’d agree that an AH-6J was “lightly armed” though!
I thought a NOTAR was tested by the 160th SOAR because it was hoped it would be quieter, but this turned out not to be the case by any noticeable margin, so they stuck to to the “tried and tested” traditional design?
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
Steve TouchdownPresumably one of the two MiG-29UB that were imported and registered in 1999. Not sure they’ve ever flown since arriving….Art?!
They were based at Quincy, Illinois, and are shown here with other aircraft from the “Air USA Inc” fleet
Cheers
Steve ~ Touchdown-News
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