Blackcatand the Russian one that the Chief had talked abt.
Ka-137 (Russian)
The Russian Kamov helicopter OKB (design bureau) has also built a tactical UAV, the Kamov “Ka-137”. Kamov has produced a number of different manned helicopter designs since the 1940s, focusing on the “coaxial” rotor configuration, with twin rotors spinning in opposite directions on the same shaft.
Kamov flew Russia’s first unmanned helicopter, the Ka-37, in 1993, after developing the UAV with their own funds. The “Ka-37” looked like a scaled-down version of a Kamov manned helicopter, with the coaxial rotor configuration and a tailboom with fins. The Ka-37 was apparently sold in some numbers for agricultural applications, and led to an improved “Ka-37S” prototype in 1996 that featured a new engine.
The Ka-137 is a next-generation follow-on to the Ka-37, and has been substantially redesigned. The Ka-137 is an endearingly toylike machine, somewhat in a class with the Canadair CL-227, with a ball-shaped body, four landing legs, and a coaxial rotor system powered by a 49 kW (65 horsepower) piston engine. It can carry a TV imaging system, and can be operated using a truck-based support and control system. The Ka-137 is currently in use with Russian border guards and possibly Russian coast guard patrol boats.
spec —- metric —- english
rotor width —- 5.3 meters —- 17 feet 5 inches
body diameter —- 1.22 meters —- 3 feet 11 inches
max loaded weight —- 280 kilograms —- 617 pounds
maximum speed —- 175 KPH —- 110 MPH / 95 KT
service ceiling —- 3,500 meters —- 11,500 feet
endurance —- 4 hours
payload —- Day / night imager.
guidance system —- Programmable with radio control backup.
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and as u guys can see and if searched more ….. this wud be the most compact, simple and ofcourse the cheapest one and I guess aeach ship wud be able to carry 2-3-6 or more for its round the clock operation.
Blackcatand here some pic of the 9m317 and SM-3 …… u guys can see the similarity … and how abt ading that booster like the SM to the russian one… thats what we need to concentrate… we need good long range missile in the class so as to cover a radius of 300Km and for now no ned to have the navalised S-300… rather concentrate on longer range of the ligher and sleeker missile – 9m317. That would go a long way in getting the navy secure its air, there by securing itself from any air-assault.
Blackcatand some more
CAC Systemes Heliot (French)
The CAC Systemes Heliot is a small two-seat helicopter that can be piloted or operated as a UAV for reconnaissance or decoy missions. It is also used as a target drone. The Heliot is of conventional main-tail rotor configuration and is powered by a Hirth piston engine with 79 kW (105 horsepower). It has a large payload capacity, and CAC Systemes advertises it for use with a wide range of standard or customer-supplied payloads for reconnaissance, electronic warfare, or training.
spec —– metric —- english
rotor diameter —- 6.7 meters —- 22 feet
length —- 6 meters —- 19 feet 8 inches
payload weight —- 120 kilograms —- 265 pounds
empty weight —- 230 kilograms —- 507 pounds
launch weight —- 450 kilograms —- 992 pounds
maximum speed —- 126 KPH —- 78 MPH / 68 KT
service ceiling —- 3,000 meters —- 9,850 feet
endurance —- 2 hours 30 minutes
payload —- Imagers, EW, countermeasures, etc.
guidance system —- Programmable with GPS, radio control backup.
&
Techno-Sud Vigilant (French)
The Techno-Sud Vigilant is another French mini-UAV. It is a small unpiloted helicopter of conventional main-tail rotor configuration, and powered by a 9 kW (12 horsepower) two-stroke engine. The Vigilant is marketed by Thomson-CSF, and is being sold to both military and civilian users. Civilian users have accounted for the bulk of sales, using it for applications such as security or environmental monitoring.
spec —- metric —- english
rotor diameter —- 1.83 meters —- 6 feet
length —- 2.3 meters —- 7 feet 6 inches
launch weight —- 40 kilograms —- 88 pounds
maximum speed —- 97 KPH —- 60 MPH / 52 KT
service ceiling —- 1,830 meters —- 6,000 feet
endurance —- 1 hour
payload —- Imagers and custom payloads.
guidance system —- Programmable with radio control backup.
&
Schiebel Camcopter (Australian)
Schiebel of Austria has developed a helicopter mini-UAV named the “Camcopter”, which was evaluated the US Air Force as part of studies in developing improved defenses from terrorist attacks on military installations. It was purchased by the Iranians, officially to help clear minefields, but has apparently also been used for patrolling Iran’s border with Afghanistan.
The Camcopter has a conventional main-tail rotor helicopter configuration, with twin-blade main rotor. It used an 11 kW (15 horsepower) two-stroke piston engine.
spec —- metric —- english
rotor diameter —- 3.09 meters —- 9 feet 11 inches
length —- 2.68 meters —- 8 feet 10 inches
empty weight —- 43 kilograms —- 95 pounds
launch weight —- 68 kilograms —- 150 pounds
maximum speed —- 90 KPH —- 56 MPH / 49 KT
service ceiling —- 3,000 meters —- 9,840 feet
endurance —- 6 hours
payload —- Day / night imager.
guidance system —- Programmable with GPS, radio control backup.
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BlackcatGood for them. Cooperative development is the name of the game.
I did not get whom u meant …. “Good for them’
abt the barak ….. they do the close-in job and so does the kashtan …. and there is no need to put Indian money for Isrealis to develop their stuff which i think is not much use to India. There main mission is to get as much bugs from India as possible and drwy it away from Russia. If ever they really have been helping India like many Indian and Indian media drool abt, then it should have been the Trishul entering Indian Naval service and not the barak after the Isreali backed western media never ever failed to bash and highlight the Trishul development slippages.
I bet if it had been with Russia, Trishul would have been entering the navy serivice and not Klinok. We cud have don the seekers (which i think was the main problem) with Agat who makes all the Russian seekers. That would have been helpful .
Now that Kashtan is in, and its a good system , there is no need to pull in the Barak too. but standardise Kashtan and move ahead with development of longer range version of Shtil missile with the Russians who will be placing the VL version of the Shtil missile on their newere corvettes.
also how many indegenious UAV do we now make after buying a huge quantity of UAV’s from Israel and how much did we got from that for our indegenious UAVs??
and as usual let me tell u we have lot to gain from a cooperative development from Russia than from anyone else, ANYONE ELSE.
BlackcatI think it should read “Americans”, referring to the Bell Eagle Eye and the NG Firescout.
I wud differ on that coz its highly unlikely that any word mentioning American be mis quoted by Indian media and those reporting defence matters, coz of their obsession with western world.
anyway here are some info for all abt the two system …. from vectorsite
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Bell Eagle Eye tiltrotor
The Bell Eagle Eye tiltrotor, another one of the competitors in the Navy VT-UAV competition, performed its initial flight in 1993. The Eagle Eye is powered by a single Allison 250-C20 turboshaft engine mounted in the center fuselage, with a transmission system driving a tilting rotor at the end of each wing.
Bell promoted the Eagle Eye for a decade without finding a buyer, but in the summer of 2002, the US Coast Guard ordered the UAV as part of the service’s broad “DeepWater” re-equipment effort. It must have been a great relief to company officials.
spec —- metric —- english
wingspan —- 4.63 meters —- 15 feet 2 inches
length —- 5.46 meters —- 17 feet 11 inches
rotor diameter —- 2.9 meters —- 9 feet 6 inches
max loaded weight —- 910 kilograms —- 2,000 pounds
maximum speed —- 322 KPH —- 200 MPH / 174 KT
service ceiling —- 6,100 meters —- 20,000 feet
endurance —- 8 hours
&
US NAVY RQ-8A FIRESCOUT
* While the Army was working on Outrider, the Navy was moving on to its second generation UAV, as old Pioneers were being withdrawn from service.
The Navy requirement specified a vertical takeoff & landing (VTOL) aircraft, with a payload capacity of 90 kilograms (200 pounds), a range of 200 kilometers (125 miles), an endurance on station of three hours at an altitude of 6 kilometers (20,000 feet), and the ability land on a ship in a 46 KPH (29 MPH) breeze. The UAV was to fly 190 hours between maintenance.
There were three finalists in the competition, which was designated “VTOL-UAV” or “VT-UAV”. Bell, Sikorsky, and a collaboration of Ryan and Schweizer Helicopters submitted designs.
The Ryan-Schweizer UAV was selected as the winner in the spring of 2000. The “RQ-8A Firescout”, as it was named, was a derivative of the Schweizer three-passenger, turbine powered 330SP helicopter, itself a derivative of the Hughes 300 series helicopters, with a new fuselage, new fuel system, and added UAV electronics and sensors.
The initial prototype of the Firescout was piloted in initial tests, flying autonomously for the first time in January 2000. The Rolls-Royce Allison 250 turbine engine ran on JP-5 and JP-8 jet fuel, which is nonvolatile and safe for shipboard storage.
The Firescout was to be fitted with a sensor ball turret that carries electro-optic and infrared cameras, and a laser range finder. It was to be controlled over a data link derived from the Northrop Grumman Global Hawk UAV, operating over a line of sight to a distance of 280 kilometers (172 miles). The control system was to be fitted onto a ship, or could be carried on a Hummer light vehicle for US Marine service.
The Firescout program suffered a setback in November 2000, when the initial prototype crashed and was destroyed, leading to a schedule slip. Despite the accident, the Navy was expected to move quickly to begin production and introduction of the type, but then in late 2001 the program went into a stall.
Although progress on the project had been regarded as satisfactory, the Navy decided the Firescout didn’t meet their needs after all, and cut funding for the program in December 2001. The Navy hopes to leverage technology development for the Firescout program into their next UAV effort. Northrop Grumman continues to promote the Firescout to other potential customers.
* Despite the difficulties in procuring operational UAV systems, the US military is entering a new era in which UAVs will be critical to warfighting tactics. UAVs fitted with optical, infrared, and SAR sensors, SIGINT payloads, or ECM systems should be in widespread use in about a decade, with the UAVs controlled and relaying data back over high-bandwidth data links in real time, linked to ground, air, sea, and space platforms.
The trend had been emerging before the American war in Afghanistan in 2001:2002, but was greatly accelerated by the use of UAVs in that conflict, and in fact combat experience was one of the inputs that convinced the Navy to give up on the Firescout. The war in Afghanistan emphasized “long endurance” UAVs, which are the subject of later chapters.
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and below pictures of Eagle Eye & Firescout
BlackcatPirate i think u put that one (B757) coz i mentioned in the above post as B757 …. actually sorry I meant B767 ..tupo error ….. both of these are coming to an end but its the B767 (a wide-bodied) thats gonna get converted to tanker …. good though, but what i don like is they are now dragging the Brits out from the Airbus pocket and creating more troubles already with Brits and Europe …. but the Brits shud understand that a good amt of Airbus parts are made in UK and they will also be benifitting…… but then I guess they got no option and the result of putting all eggs in the continental basket ….
BlackcatAsk the Peruans about that and the Russian AF.
What is your source about reliablety and user so far?
I don have time to go there and ask…..so u can put some link or any article which mentions that.
Blackcatyup, i meant that, and dumb arses believe what the pentagon shows in that ….
Blackcatso again Isrealis trying to pull in India…..i say no need for barak Kashtan and if possible Plama wud be fine…rather concentrate on Shtil VLS and make a longer version of the same like the USN SM series thats wud help in the future
Blackcatand another one, both of these reports Vympel had posted earlier
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Fazotron-NIIR Corporation Creating Aircraft Radar for Fifth Generation MiG Fighter
The Fazotron-NIIR corporation will continue work on the creation of an aircraft radar (BRLS) for a future fifth generation fighter in accordance with an agreement with the Russian Airplane Building Corporation (RSK) MiG, the general director and general designer of the Fazotron-NIIR corporation, Anatoliy Kanashchenkov, reported to Interfax-AVN on Wednesday.
“Fazotron-NIIR has signed an agreement with RSK MiG on the development of a radar for a future fifth generation fighters created at RSK MiG on its own initiative,” A. Kanashchenkov said.
According to him, RSK MiG had proposed to the Fazotron-NIIR corporation the development of a BRLS for the fifth generation fighter being created. “The offer was accepted and this summer an agreement was signed by four organizations, including Fazotron-NIIR, RSK MiG and also engine-building firms,” A. Kanashchenkov said.
He recalled that the MiG corporation had adopted a decision in principle to continue work on future fighter on its own initiative.
In A. Kanashchenkov’s opinion, that developer who creates the best active phased array radar (AFAR) will win the competition for the fifth generation fighter in actual fact.
“The Fazotron-NIIR corporation has adopted a decision to continue scientific research and experimental design work on the creation of a new BRLS with an AFAR with subsequent alternative testing of it and a real demonstration of its capabilities,” A. Kanashchenkov said.
In his opinion, Fazotron-NIIR is the most advanced company in the area of future fighter avionics complexes.
“Over a 5 year period, Fazotron-NIIR has executed scientific research and experimental design work in accordance with a state defense order to the stage of the detail design and has defended it. Other developmental firms are at the preliminary design stage,” said A. Kanashchenkov.
According to A. Kanashchenkov, not only will Fazotron-NIIR be working with RSK MiG in the creation of the fifth generation BRLS, but also with the Sukhoy OKB. According to him, it is planned to make flight tests of the future radar on Sukhoy OKB airplanes.
In 2002, AVPK Sukhoy was determined as the chief executor of work on the fifth generation airplane.
The Tekhnokompleks Scientific and Production Center, Ramenskoye Instrument Building Design Bureau, the Instrument Building Scientific Research Institute (Zhukovskiy), the Ural’sk Optical and Mechanical Plant (Yekaterinburg), the Polet firm (Nizhniy Novgorod) and The Central Scientific Research Radio Engineering Institute (Moscow) were pronounced winners in the competition held in the beginning of 2003 for the development of the avionics complex for the fifth generation airplane. NPO Saturn has been determined the lead executor for work on the engines for this airplane.
Source: 10.09.03, Interfax-AVN
BlackcatNitin,
Thats way too optimistic SOC, many of the most critical subsystems are yet to be developed- AESA for eg. Or demonstrated- stealth measures for one. The Su work on the 27 may be a starting step though.
Abt the flght test, I’d go along Seans line …..as the first testing of parameters wud be don on S-37 or say as I mostly believe a ‘conventional’ winged S-37 is gonna be the base of PAK-FA ….
and abt the AESA stuffs ….. the Russians have been working on it for some time now and wud have been speeded up if Indian joined in with financial aids, but before that the Unkil and Isrelis dashed in and pulled away from any thing related to a joint developement of an A-50 with AESA and other stuffs …..
Russian AESA work …. hope the IN’s MiG-29s get these, possible?
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Bench Tests of First Aircraft Radar with Active Phased Array Antenna Start in 2004
The Fazotron-NIIR Corporation plans to start bench tests in 2004 of the first aircraft radar with an active phased array antenna (BRLS with AFAR), the general director and general designer of the corporation, Anatoliy Kanashchenkov, reported to Interfax-AVN on Thursday ((8 May 2003)).
“As early as the second quarter 2003, the first of several elements for the active phased array antenna should be manufactured,” A. Kanashchenkov said.
According to him, new principles based on solid-state technology are being used in the BRLS with AFAR being developed by the corporation.
“As of today, we already have prospective power amplifier and approximately half the solid-state integrated analogue circuits,” said A. Kanashchenkov.
He reported that the enterprise is participating in a competition for the creation of the aircraft radar for the future Russian fifth generation fighter.
“The document about the conclusion of the competition for the creation of the aircraft radar for the future Russian fighter still has not been signed. But independent of the results of the competition, Fazotron-NIIR will continue work on the development of a future BRLS with AFAR – such work has been underway at the enterprise over the last 7 years,” A. Kanashchenkov said.
Answering an Interfax-AVN question, he reported that “the future BRLS with AFAR will be more expensive than a BRLS with a passive phased array antenna. At the same time, A. Kanashchenkov noted that the improvement of the technology for manufacturing a BRLS with AFAR over time will allow appreciably reducing expenses and lead to a lowering of the price for the complex.
“As early as after the manufacture and tests of the first 5 – 10 BRLS with AFAR the technology of their assembly will be improved and the cost lowered significantly,” A. Kanashchenkov said.
Source: 08.05.03, Interfax-AVN
BlackcatGD,
The only current credible sea-based naval airwing outside the US. But its ability is highly limited. You can only fight Argentina so many times.
Of course not GD …… u need to add that, it’s the only credible sea-based air wing outside the US when it has got the support of the USN carrier fleet. Hell even the Russians cud do much better than that given a 1 year finance is made available to them for at least a ‘trial check’ for that 1x K against 3 x I.
A large floating showpiece. There isn’t much tactical value when the thing could only venture out a few times a year.
U r conveniently ignoring the finance, which forms the basic part of that situation. The thought from u regarding the Russian carrier is no surprise as it gets in tune with ur other Russian thoughts. And the only ‘credible’ air-wing’ outside US according to u, wont be even worth a show-piece if its funding was in a state as what the Russian Carrier find-itself in.
Make available the finance for the Kuzentsov and U’ll get to see what it can do. But then for now I got to agree, more-or-less a showpiece with the largest AD missiles on any surface ship. But the 12 Granits wont be light on arse too.
It would be formidable once the De Gaulle is fully operational. Then France will pay through the nose to operate it.
I’d only hope that they take out the pressure off the reactors for that steam cat so as to atleast give it a decent Knots for a carrier of its size. The other thing that has ben crossing my mind have been to retain one cat and make a Ski-Jump for the Rafale as that would take some pressure off the N-reactors but then would need work ut for that in addition to Rafales. I think France should not pay through the nose to make it operate, but should do it good enough to make it operate decently and retreat it to more of a Helo carrier when new set of carrier arrives. The move should also include renaming the ship and transferring the CDG to the newer carrier, as that name is what making more trouble to the carrier to perform than what it can with its current state, coz of the importance of that name.
And personally I’d like to see it bestowed on the new carrier as that would be the only way to get back the respect the name commands and its not worth to keep that name for the current carrier as it has accumulated more insults to that name.
Even with good Western efficiency, I don’t see at sea for more than 5 months out of the year. They’ll need a second (not happening) to factor in carrier-based aviation the core force in their doctrine like the US.
what abt the Prime Contract Office that was to be set up for the French future a/c carrier project (PA2) under the responsibility of a jointly (DCN 65% & Thales 35%) owned company?
It was said that the PCO would be leading the PA2 programme from conception to completion and I guess it would be based on the already proposed CVF, which looks pretty good.
BlackcatSean,
On paper, Russia’s Admiral Kuznetsov is the best in my book. Capable aircraft, and it has the added punch of SS-N-19 SHIPWRECK surface-to-surface missiles, the same weapons used by the Kirov and the Oscar II. Notice that I said “on paper”, though. Rarely has Russia had the necessary money to train crews and refit the vessel to put out to sea.
Do u mean that it’s the best among the ROW or including the USN carriers?
As far as my personal opinion goes, its not very different, but I want it to be modified or to say the fact – fully developed to have (speculation) 2 x EM catapults so as to get the Yak-44AEW on the deck and the rest being 2 squadrons of MiG-29MKI and 1 x squadron of Su-33MKI totaling to 52 a/c (possible?)
36 x MiG-29MKI (main guys firing up their engines when the Su-33s calls out for ‘re-inforcements’
12 x Su-33MKI (Include long-range ‘show-off’ patrol, re-fuelling and EW escorts)
4 x Yak-44AEW (obviously for that ‘all-round view’)
And I believe the above grouping would standout in projecting power from this otherwise very potential carrier, which has not yet reached anywhere near its full potential capability.
Now that MKI stuff will make some get the feeling that I want that carrier to be in Indian Naval service with the above-mentioned stuffs if and when Russia thinks of disposing it. And I say about $5+ billion ($1.8-2.2 billion for carrier and the rest for aircrafts) for the upgraded carrier along with the air wing would be worth the stuff!
The above also include the replacement of the Klinok VLS with longer-range version of Shtil VL (in excess of 300Km) like the SM series with addition of larger boosters for a ‘clear sky’ out to 300+Km radius around the carrier so as to relieve a heavy escort for AD. 96-128 of these replacing the 192 x Klinok VLS would be good enough with the Kashtan’s adding 256 of its own for that close-in combat.
And surely no western power would like to see any Asian Nation and in particular India having a good capability as can be utilised from a fully developed Kuznetsov carrier. So all the hell can be seen if such a scenario arises where IN thinks of acquiring this carrier.
There would also be numerous self attested strategic analysts advocating with the theory abt ‘crappy carrier’; ‘rusty bucket’; ‘bigger lemon sold’; ‘Russians taking Indians for a ride’; ‘unproven aircraft and ship’; ‘logistics nightmare’; ‘putting burden on IN’; ‘don’t need such costly stuffs’; ‘too little for the amount spend’ ——- and diplomatic doses — ‘India spending more than necessary on defence’; ‘arms race with Pakistan’; ‘won’t help peace process’….. and the ‘democratic world’ paid NGOs and peace activists with their own — ‘Arms dealers driving budget’ ; ‘Govt needs to wipe out poverty’; ‘needs more fund for Social sector’; ‘ports can’t accommodate’ —— and not to mention blah blah channel and pretty sure unlike the Gorshkov deal wont stay mum on this matter and would have ‘brain storming’ sessions on Asia Today and other regional programmes for ‘Asian enlightment’ as to the futility and an unwanted burden on Indian public and would be in forefront for derailing and pulling back from the deal when the letter of intend would be signed. There would be another pile in the form of Pohn Jike with his set of analysis like the ones specially meant for Kilos and LCA (initially)
….. i.e just a part of the whole affair which might be able to be seen in the future if this happens ….. not to forget are the leaches of the world or say the only one, who would be working overtime to get as many contract as possible and snatch as many as possible from Russia with their moles in the establishment and the ground work seems to be going fine with the ‘finest part’ getting through when the Indian Military establishment is in for a major modernisation.
BTW a question for the Indian members …. How do u penetrate a decently protected Castle???…. or say even a well fortified compound??? …… I wont get a better opportunity than when the castle or compound is under repair or maintenance!
BlackcatLOL …… Mathew …… but I am gonna post a long article related to subsidy …… let me check if got time for that or not
BlackcatLOL …… Mathew …… but I am gonna post a long article related to subsidy …… let me check if got time for that or not
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