Not compared to the United States, the Pacific Rim (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea) and Western Europe.

There are free societies like the above where every social and economic indicators prove that they are free.

Then there are “free” societies like the “world’s largest democracy” where it is “free” in name only.

Good, at least you understand.

Anyone with an understanding of politics and history would know that there are unfree systems that are worse than communism. Those are the feudal and caste systems which led to communism in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cuba, etc. in the first place.

The world’s “largest democracy” is famous for having one of the worst of these caste systems.

So for someone like Ramachandran to talk about free and commie pilots while his own country trails even communist nations in all the basic categories of human life is stupid beyond words.

If infants in the world’s “largest democracy” are dying at twice the rate of North Korea which is synonymous with commie inefficiency and misplaced priorities, then it is most certainly not a free society in any shape or form.

“Free” doesn’t mean extreme poverty and premature death.

As I have mentioned above, please read my first post.

Regards

In all honesty, he does raise a point. Free societies are by nature successful and efficient. The greatest expression of a free society is the wealth and well beings of its citizens. Freedom creates wealthy populations which in turn produce better pilots (among a host of other professions.)

Unfree societies are uniformily poor. Countries with caste systems that restrict the upward mobility of large portions of the population are the poorest among them. Caste systems are unfree societies that are not commie states. They are worse.

For example, the world’s “largest democracy” has the world’s largest reservoir people living in abject poverty. Immense and biblical poverty that had always attracted the world’s charity organizations. Children there actually die at birth twice as much as the largest commie state and its people live 8 years less.

Any nation that can trail a communist state in infant mortality and longevity is a very unfree state indeed.

So if it can’t raise the life expectancy of its people to even communist levels how can it pilots be any better?

It would be too much to expect certain people to not keep repeating cliches. Please read my first post.

Perhaps this is an example of brainwashed thinking? The lack of originality is a clear pointer towards thinking in one plane. If combat pilots display the above lack of originality and repetitiveness, they are surely doomed.

Regards

.

The sights and sounds of personal attacks:

Again, I fight my own fights thus here goes my thoughts:

If you don’t mind my saying so, it was you who initiated and who smart
assedly insisted on the personal attacks. I mean even the blind can see who your
attacks are directed against. Yes! It is that vivid. We read you like an open book “even
though the mods of this board won’t” or are incapable of going that far.

“So consider yourself a lucky ducky for having friends in high places.”

A question, Mr. Ramachandran: Why are you still so old fashion?
I mean the psyche that you have towards others in this world is almost :p jurassic :p
(Old and outdated ideals; pathetic branding/characterizing practices, etc.). It’s out of touch with
reality and with the world. It’s now the 21st century, Mr. Ramachandran. It’s time for you
to get off of “the commie/free society” gravy train and get a life!

And please!!! I wouldn’t get all excited about your so called positive
outcome with the American pilots either if I were you. Because, if the Americans
would’ve really and truly wanted to to take you guys on, it’ll be like duck hunting seaon
for them and no more than that. Yes, it would be that easy for them.

“And if you don’t mind my saying so,
get this through your thick heads: the Americans are,
plain & simple – only patronizing you.”

One thing I just can’t figure however: I just can’t understand
the logics as to why the mods of this board would even permit something that
harbours so much prejudice in it and which is clearly and unmistakably of a discriminitive

nature while seemingly beneign and harmless topics would go mysteriously missing.
It’s almost as if there’s a conspiracy going all of AFM’s own here.

.

When someone says stuff like I FIGHT MY OWN FIGHTS…….it makes people wonder. A supposed citizen from a democratic country FIGHTING (at least that is the way this certain someone puts it) for commie dictators. Lol.

To me that says it all.

I have no hard feelings towards the oppressed citizens living inside or outside these dictatorships. It is the fact that such regimes still exist in todays modern world where progress in human resources is as important as material progress. I believe one should not get emotional when dealing with facts that are unfortunately very much true.

I am unaware of having made any reference to Americans in any of my posts. What Americans do is their business. The worlds largest democracy and the worlds most powerful democracy can live side by side and tolerate each other for such is the nature of democracy….it breeds tolerance. AND this is deviating from the subject, what have the Americans got to do with mentally conditioned pilots from commie dictatorships.

The truth my friend is sometimes bitter. As I have mentioned many times in my posts, forcing people to confirm and live according to the way chosen for them by their masters produces brainwashed people. Unfortunately, brainwashed people make brainwashed combat pilots, which in turn makes them cannon fodder similar to brainwashed foot soldiers.

Please do not take these thoughts as a personal attack.

Regards

Hmmm! Interesting remark…

And here’s my honest opinion to your question: Should we, maybe,
and instead, have your question put in this manner rather than the way
you had put it: Is there truly and really such a thing as a “free society”??? Given
the way things go now day, I don’t think so, my friend! And aren’t all
leaderships “dictatorships” of one kind or another? You bet it is!

Problem is: what you’ve present is not a question. It’s more a statement
than it is anything else. I’m sure that deep down that you would agree that I’m right about that.
You see, some people, they’re just not good at hiding their sentiments :p .

Well… I for one come from just such a country; Canada to be exact and
it’s no pinic there by golly. I mean just try and get away with having to pay your taxes and see what
happens! Just throw in Judge Judy and you’ll see how democratic her world…

You’ve got to be kiddin’. Or you are maybe just too naive. Just
ask this guy (Pastor Yee I think his name) and he’ll tell you all about his
deomocractic rights; about his freedom of expression (Dan Rather this category too);
about human value and about his humanrights!!! Spying on the public doesn’t
make us any different from those Stalin’s secret policed either.

Would you accept it if I tell you what I really think of it
(honestly that is)? And would you promise me not to get mad if I do tell
you the truth the whole tuth and nothing but the truth?

Well well what do we have here?

A person living in a democracy is entitled to his/her views and has the right to air these views in public gatherings, to his/her peers, friends, critics, and his/her government as long as it does not impinge on the rights of other people to go on with their lives. AND they do not get thrown into jail without trial or face worse things for exercising their basic rights. I guess this DEFINES A FREE SOCIETY. If the citizen feels the government has wronged him/her, they can take the government to court and I am surprised a person living in a democracy is unaware of such basics of democracy. It just confirms my belief that unfortunately there are people with dictatorial mentalities even in free democratic countries. This is another facet of democracy…..something called tolerance towards all kinds of citizens….. as long as they do not abuse this tolerance.

I am surprised by this vehemence. Do you honestly believe if you were a citizen of the largest commie dictatorship you could get away with making statements criticizing the powers that be? I can imagine the firing squad lining up.

It is tax receipts that run a government. It is these same taxes that provides for its citizens the basic amenities that they take for granted. Are you by any chance implying that you do not like to pay your taxes? well….well..

Such deepfelt sympathy for commie dictatorships…..I wonder……

Mentally conditioned people make excellent foot soldiers and cannon fodder, but combat pilots…..sadly no.

Regards

The quality of a pilot has more to do with training and the system he or she will operate in (i.e. GCI heavy or not) than it does with the politics behind his or her government. Pilots trained to operate in a GCI-heavy environment may, for example, not be given as much latitude in their operation of the aircraft, and therefore may not be as “fully” trained as they might like to be.

As a rule I would fully agree that pilot quality has more to do with training and A/C than politics behind his/her government. The majority of people are usually apolitical until election time in a democracy when they have the opportunity to elect a government best suited to run their country. But when we talk in the context of totalitarian ideology-driven regimes, only the most totalitarian of the ideologues there can move forward and occupy decision-making posts. Hence the basic requirement to rise in society or to aspire for any office, especially to become a fighter pilot, would be to be a rabid ideologue or pretend to be one because no other way can one rise to positions of power in such regimes. Thus politics is not limited to the government, but rather a part of the individual himself in such regimes. Such ideology is thus inculcated into children at a very young age and I would be very surprised if these children grow up without personality flaws that would show up at some time or the other especially if they go on to fly combat aircraft.

People end up becoming cannon fodder for such regimes.

Regards

The highest scoring pilots in history came from a totalitarian society—Nazi Germany. The highest scoring pilots from the Allies came from the Soviet Union.

Not at all. When you enter the military, you are stripped and disassembled completely, then reassembled and rebuilt into a lean mean fighting machine. Regardless of ideology, you are reconditioned to follow orders, orders and nothing but orders. A military isn’t a democracy, and yes, you’re still a drone. In a way, you are brought into a level field.

However, wealthier societies is able to afford more resources into training pilots. Does not matter if the society is free or not, it all comes down to the buckaroos.

The highest scoring pilots are exceptions than the rule. Ultimately the nazis were wiped out and the erstwhile soviet union disintegrated. It is possible to repress people only up to a point.

I would state a different opinion though. As I have mentioned before, trainees who do not come in burdened with the baggage of ideology make for better students and are more receptive to new ideas.

We can very well envisage a scenario where a military aviator gets an inkling of what is being hidden from him in the name of ideology, grasps that the stuff hammered into him for years does not portray reality; what would be the chance of such a person defecting? I would say quite high. Would I be wrong to say that in such a totalitarian regime, especially in a scenario where the Internet has made information very easy to access, aviators would be under considerable pressure to constantly prove their loyalty to the regime and fearing surveillance. Such defections have happened in the past. What is to prevent more from happening? Given an opportunity there are few who would voluntarily want to live in a totalitarian regime.

Practice makes perfect, but surely the ideological baggage is somewhat of a drawback?

Regards

From the responses of Ramachandran I can safely say that Ramachandran hasn’t served a day of his life as an aviator. He hasn’t the slightest clue to what hs is actually talking about… No knowledge of the operations of a aricraft especially a military aircraft.

I wonder what is the perpose of this thread other than to flame?

A military is not a democracy. If you think otherwize than you clearly are nuts.

There is not much freedom in fighter operations, in real life you go by engagement rules and every pilot know that. If they want to keep your job then they would stick to the rules and any deviation in actions are punished severely. It’s probably why there is a field manual for people to study and not making up engagement rules as Ramachandran seems to suggest.

It surprises me when some people claim to be clairvoyant. I suppose one cannot help but feel sympathy for them.

Please do not divert attention from the topic.

I have never claimed that a military is a democracy. The bedrock of a democracy is its individual citizen and each has the right to choose his/her occupation. Those who pass the necessary tests and criteria to enter the armed forces of their own choice forego certain rights that would impinge with their commitments as military personnel. But before getting into the military, the same person enjoyed all the benefits that are fundamentally guaranteed to them under the constitution that usually does not vary from democracy to democracy. Thus they enter the armed forces with the right aptitude and attitude which are exploited to the hilt by their trainers to mould them into the warriors they eventually become.

I think we are again deviating from the subject. I am questioning the ability of military pilots and common citizens too who since infancy are forced fed the heavy load of indoctrination so that they do not deviate from the path of communism and are ideologically brainwashed to not question things, to not be receptive to new ideas and ways of thinking if it would go contrary to the philosophy of communism. Would people with such indoctrination be able to handle the pressures of a war scenario where the opposition constantly changes tactics as opportunity presents.

I am questioning this because I truly believe that it is very much a possibility.

Golden Dragon, can’t believe you wasted all that time posting to this idiot 😉

Please do not fall down to the level of personal attacks. It reflects on you more than me.

Peace