Scorpion89Hey Joe,
Thanks I can’t find my copy of Manns book still unpacking from the move.
As for 84123 my source is from Maxwell AFB Crash records this aircraft was lost with three on board being killed the aircraft is list on the accident report as a SB-29B converet from the KP a few of the KB later in life were retro fitted with some SB items but were never list as official SB by the Airforce.
Since I don’t live to far from the National Archives and I have to make a trip up there sometime soon I’ll see what is avaible for photos of any of the SB-29s it might take me awhile since I’m working on going thru all the capture German Aircraft records right now.
Scorpion89Another one to add to the list is
44-84123 B-29-65-BA SB-29
Scorpion89Yes this report was also mentioned but was not his uncle who was stationed at Shawbury when it happened and had been on a fighter affiliation exercise when the accident occured.You can read about it on http://www.bsacforum.com.
The link just brings me to a Domane Page
Scorpion89This is what I have on the plane,
41-6234 P-47C-2-RE
Assigned to the 495th Fighter Group, 552th Fighter Squadron I have it crashing 1 mile off the shore in the Channel and that it was condemned on the 24th due to damage, which means that it was most likely recovered if it crash in the shallows.
Scorpion89A couple of corrections and updates are needed to the list a few messages back….
Bu#46456 N4852T should read N4582T and this is no longer at Cherry Point but is with Project Catalina at Floyd Benett Field, NY under static restoration. It was FAB 6509
Bu#46457 N4852U should read N4582U. It was ex-FAB 6510
Bu#46582 N4583A is ex-FAB 6520
Bu#46595 N4583B is ex-FAB 6551In fact, a fifth ex-FAB PBY (actually a former Canso A) did come to the USA later and was registered to an owner at the same address as the other four and all were connected with David Tallichet. This was N4934H ex-FAB 6525 and RCAF 9838 and it is now to be found at the Historic Aviation Memorial Museum at Tyler, Tx.
If Stangman would like to contact me off group at [email]davidlegg@pby5.fsnet.co.uk[/email] , I can help him with articles about the recovery flights as originally requested.
Hi David,
Very interesting because when I ask David about these Cats three years ago he never mention the 5th he always told me that the one he wanted is now the one on display in Rio. As for the Project Catalina my understanding is that this is assocated with MARC some how. What is really interesting is the 2U is listed as part of Project but I and you both know that this is still on display at Kirtland.
As for Air International Sales that is one of the mystery company’s that I’ve been trying to get information on. Yes its the same mailing address as MARC but is it part of the over all company’s of Davids it would fit in, some other aircraft that are under that name are quite a few L-382Cs and a DC-3C that I know is Davids because I’ve sat in it with him some time back.
On a side note the PBY that is now on display at Wright and Pat this was and the Kirtland PBY where part of the deal that David got three C-54s and then he turned around and trade one to the guy who owned his B-17.
I know that David told me that he had talk to the Air Force Museum about trying to get all of the PBYs from Brazil but they wouldn’t part with three of them.
Scorpion89I have read many accounts of David Tallichets life recently, and all mention that he led a group of 5 Pby-5a’s from Brazil.
Is their an account of this trip anywhere in a book or online?
Any pictures or info on the 5?cheers
Hi Stangman,
The aircraft are as follows,
Bu#46456 N4852T now on display at MCAS Cherry Point
Bu#46457 N4852U now on display at Kirtland AFB
Bu#46582 N4583A now on display at NAS Jacksonville
Bu#46595 N4583B now on display at Wright-Patterson
There were only four the fifth aircraft never came thru it is now on display in Rio.
As for photo I will have to see if I have they all didn’t come up in one big flight two at a time.
Scorpion89Here are few more,
44-84084 B-29-60-BA SB-29B
44-84078 B-29-60-BA SB-29B
44-69957 B-29-70-BW SB-29
44-69982 B-29-70-BW SB-29
44-84124 B-29-65-BA SB-29
44-86308 B-29-45-MO SB-29A
Also during the Korean War the 3rd Rescue Squadron operated a mix of aircraft including the SB-29s.
Scorpion89Flying A,
I can speak on the second crash in Maine. There where no injury’s or deaths on the ground the plane went into a very wooded area in Gardiner. have hunted the area in the past I can tell you that the rescue folks had a very hard time getting to the crash site. My Cousin is on the Volunteer Fire Dept, in West Gardiner.
By what he told me there really isn’t much left of the aircraft it hit hard and burnt.
A very sad day indeed.
Scorpion89Hi All,
I have question from an Historian view, is this list used by the English Government for keeping track of Historical Aircraft.
Scorpion89I just found this on
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmoss2.htmlA number of Mosquitos were operated by civilian organizations after the war. A company from Los Angeles, Jack Amman Photographic Engineers, bought a number of PR.34s. These machines were converted by DH at Hatfield for survey work in Libya.
Does it help?
Two of Jacks aircraft end their days with the CAF not much of either are still around by what Gary told me when we talked about them.
At one time David Tallichet had gone to look at them in the mid 70s but he passed on purchasing them because even by then they were way to gone.
Scorpion89Hi All,
This should thread on Wixs explains everything,
Scorpion89Not sure if you are so much interested in the issues, aircraft and information so much as arguing for the sake of it.
No Richard what I’m interested in is the facts which seem to be only being hand out in small parts. As for the issue well simple the issue is that you have an aircraft the Mossie that the Museum wants to sell and you and other folks are jumping up and down screaming bloody murder.
If people have written to city council in support of selling the airplane, and they likely have, they have not sent copies to me, so the statement stands. And I welcome hearing and reading all perspective on the situation.
Your correct folks have written to support the City and Museum what I took too was that you stated that its been 100% in favor of stopping the sell. This reaks of you trying to push your Soap box.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet Yagen’s Mosquito and what has happened elsewhere and elsewhen. Laws and regulations are not perfect and nor is their enforcement. That does not mean one should disregard them or toss them out as you seem to suggest. As I stated previously, if someone choses to disregard the process because it is profitable to do so, as clearly has been done, condeming the rules hardly seems productive. So no, I do not agree with you. Shall we condemn legislators, enforcers, courts and society because someone knowingly breaks the law and sometimes gets away with it? Not my way of doing things.
Correct because it is a Mossie and was an Ex-RCAF aircraft that no one in CAPA even blink an eye over its sell. Can you prove that Jerry illegally purchase the Mossie because that is what your stating in the above comments. What about the other items I’ve brought up like the CWH Corsair and the Ex-RCAF PBY with Combat History all of these have been sold and as far as I recall not a peep was heard from CAPA or Heritage Canada.
As Tom stated, the Calgary museum is a member of CAPA, the City is not as it is not an aviation museum. Regardless, federal legislation does apply to how and what they do with the airplanes.
So then your saying that there is no legal reason then that the City shouldn’t be part of CAPA since THEY ARE THE ONES WHO OWN A MAJORITY OF THE AIRCRAFT as you and others have stated.
Federal funding through Cultural Properties is not available for restoration and their involvment is not necessary or appropriate until a situation arrises where the airplane may be exported.
Alright fine then what about the Heritage Funds then why haven’t they been tap this would seem to be me the source of funds that I would be trying to get.
Don’t know how long you have been around museums or how many you have worked for, been a member of, consulted with, etc., but it is a fairly common situation to have artifacts, and in this case airframes, in storage for considerable lengths of time. This may not be ideal, but it is a reality. The Royal Tyrrell (dinosaur) museum has a backlog of over 100 year’s worth of bones to be cleaned, identified and processed at their current rate of work. So be it. Shall we condem them and anyone who supports them for this reality?
I’ve been involved with many museum for over 30 Years Sir but you can’t compare Fossels to Aircraft two different types of item that require two different way for preservation. And I’m guessing the Tyrrell Musuem doesn’t have any of their stuff in storage in a Dungy Stone Building.
In this case, the Museum acted behind closed doors and knowingly tried to circumvent the processes to which it has agreed, for the sake of the money and outside of the best interests of the aircraft, the institution, its members, the city and the vintage aviation community in general. That is my assessment of what was going on. When I found out, I did something about it. You are free to disagree with this interpretation and with my actions.
Accourding to you but when I talk to the folks in Calgary they said that is was put to a public discussion and that its been a well know fact for the past 5 Years that the City was looking to sell off the Mossie to help with the restoration Hurricane and funding for the Museum.
So Richard,
I would like to ask this question since you were one of the folks who help form the Museum why did you let the Swordfish be sold and the other Hurricane, also I’m wondering are you still part of the Museum and if not then I think you should come clean on that so we can all understand you reason behind not wanting to let this sell go thru.
Also Richard why isn’t there a CAPA Chapter in Calgary I find this very strange I was lead to believe that there used to be one that was assocated with the Museum if so care to discuss why it fold(this might be another thread topic).
Also before any of the Mods send me a little nasty gram most of you know who I am so lets just say it safe to say that the question I’ve ask would be the same one’s I would have ask anyone including myself.
And yes Richard I find any and all Heritage Laws are rather stupid when it comes to Vintage Aircraft and Warbirds but thats another thread now isn’t it.:diablo:
Scorpion891) Calgary’s Museum is a member of CAPA, this I have verified.
Tom yes the Museum is part of CAPA but Richard stated that the City of Calgary isn’t, now since they own a majority of the aircraft that are part of the Museum shouldn’t they also belong to CAPA or is their some sort of legal reason that they can’t.
2) The Yeagan Mossie is its own issue, I have been digging on this one and while I won’t comment till I have all the facts in my hands, it appears from what I have learned so far there are more questions than answers surrounding this one. But again like this Mossie, not enough fact to do more than speculate yet, and as I have already shown I won’t speculate.
While it may be its own issue and I will give you that, look at from a Non-Canadians view. Here we have a RCAF Mossie that was sold and as far as I can tell no one in CAPA or Heritage Canada try to even stop it. If I was looking to purchase the Calgary’s Mossie I would be using this example as the base of my case, goes back to the double stander that I have been bring up.
3) Canadian Museums and Associatons have been in contact with the Calgary
Museum since the last problem. The point is really mute at this stage.
Tom how can you say its mute at this stage it goes to the heart of the problem, CAPA and the Canadian Museum and Associatons have know that Calgary was looking to sell of the Mossie so I ask again where have all of these folks been for the past 3 Years.
Errors have been made, they are being corrected
I agree with this statement but lets hope that what ever is done its done with far and balance to all involved.
Again as has been the case with this whole story…there still seems to be a lack of accurate information leading to alot of speculation.
Correct but it seems to me allot of the information is come from the side that doesn’t want the Mossie to be sold and this side seems to skirt question put to them about the subject. it would be nice to have all the facts present from both side and it would be nice when question are ask of folks that they don’t skirt the question be trying to re-direct the question.
Once more hoping this all works out the best for all involved.
Tom so do I and I’m guessing everyone else who has read or posted on this thread, I do hope that if it doesn’t get sold that it along with the Hurri be put into a restoration program.
Scorpion89bobhawk,
Send me a pm and I will pass along to you garys contact info.
I do beleive he mention to me a few days back that he might be going out to the Ranch sometime soon.
Scorpion89I am hoping to be involved in its restoration should it be retained in this part of the country and would love to get your imput as well as that from others.
So Richard let me get this correct you are hoping that you will be part of the restoration if the Mossie stay in Canada, well that begs to be ask then why haven’t you been part of it over the past 10 Years instead of letting it sit in the Stone Building you could have start the restoration work and who know might even be close to being done with it.
I hear you on the money issue. One of the good things about the Cultural Properties situation in Canada is that they can provide grants to repatriate or retain significant artifacts, so a high value does not necessarily eliminate a smaller museum.
So then can they help to provide money for the restoration if so then why haven’t you step forward and fill out the paperwork to receive said funds.
I mentioned above that I continue to receive copies of notes which people are sending to the Mayor and aldermen. I would like to share one I received today, notable for its passion, wit and intelligence. Enjoy.
After reading the below letter I find first it lack and humor and be-little the mayor and Aldermen I know if I was either I would push even harder for it to be sold.
Also as I read the letter the one thing that struck me was how the person accused the City of selling it to an English Collector we have yet to determan who is the person/group that wants to purchase the airframe how do we know it might not be well know Canadian Collector who happens to want to have the aircraft restored in its place of birth.
Is “How-Town” Really “Cow-Town”
>
> To Mayor Dave Bronconnier and Aldermen of the City of Calgary
>
> As a teacher of Canadian history in a central Canadian city, I do my best
> to daily dismantle teenage stereotypes wherever I find them, especially
> about Canada’s West. When the Ontario government decided in its infinite
> wisdom to shrink the
> mandatory Grade 10 history course by cutting out the settlement of Western
> Canada, I refused to blindly follow. I told my students that you cannot
> understand the greatness of Canada until you comprehend the sacrifices
> made by Western Canadians to
> achieve their vision of a prosperous and influential West.
> Still, I continually fight historical labeling and wild generalizations
> about Western Canadians: “Everyone’s a Cro-Magnon cowboy,” or “Alberta is
> Canada’s gas station,” or my favourite – “Calgary is ‘Cow-Town.'” I
> counter by trumpeting the
> flowering of Western Canadian culture in the arts, by warning that
> Albertans are Canada’s new power brokers, and that Calgary is really
> “How-Town,” a place where great accomplishments happen.
> So will you please tell me how I explain to my students why the Mayor and
> city council of Calgary (excepting whistle-blower Ald. Ric McIver) are
> selling off a piece of Canadian heritage – a Second World War-era De
> Havilland Mosquito bomber to a
> collector in the United Kingdom? Have you lost your senses? Don’t start by
> telling me it is a fiscal necessity. Has anyone even called Premier
> Stelmach or Culture Minister Goudreau to see if they’ll cut you a cheque?
> I mean, how ironic is it to have
> $16 billion in Alberta’s Heritage Fund and your city council operates
> behind closed doors to sell off a machine that symbolizes what workers and
> warriors used to fight the scourge of Nazism? My goodness, do you people
> even know what a fascist is?
> Well, let me tell you, fascists do NOT like a free press, so I thank brave
> souls like Shawn Logan from Sun Media for breaking this story and CTV
> Calgary for spreading it across Canada. As for the Calgary Herald, that
> protector of citizens’
> interests, what about their investigations into this travesty? Heck, I
> searched their 30 day archive and the only “mosquito” references involved
> the West Nile and the Australian Open. Oh dear. I guess politicians still
> have back pockets.
> No, Mr. Mayor, no (dis)Honourable Aldermen, this situation simply won’t
> do. You cannot expect me to welcome my students into the historic halls of
> Canadian and Western glory when elected officials such as yourselves are
> selling off the assets in
> back. Today only about thirty preserved De Havilland Mosquitos remain, and
> with their wooden construction, none are airworthy. Shame on you if you do
> not take up the astounding offer by the Nanton Lancaster Society Air
> Museum to restore this plane
> free of charge!
> Right this wrong, Mr. Mayor. You are not the leader of Cow-Town. You are
> in charge of “How-Town,” the “Heart of the New West.” Get it done.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> JN
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