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Viewing 15 posts - 2,101 through 2,115 (of 2,657 total)
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  • in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2282137
    topspeed
    Participant

    The PZL-30 was cancelled, and has no chance of coming back.

    Rectangular nozzles lead to a loss in engine efficiency. Also, thrust vectoring nozzles are quite heavy. As for the rocket engine, you need to factor into account the size of oxidizer tanks, not just fuel tanks. And in particular, you will need the safety mechanisms required for preventing a large explosion during any mishap due to the presence of oxidizer onboard. Really, honestly, you should get rid of the rocket idea. I also think you are greatly underestimating the size and weight required for avionics and weapons stores.

    No I wasn’t going to resurrect the Scorpion. I just figure their aim was bright.

    Idea is t keep this really simple…and the nozzles aren’t anything like in Raptor.

    I was thinking suntin like the RATO rockets in F-104…but instead of providing 578 kN they just provide 6 kN each for a minute or two. Really easy patented invention with fast “strap on” locking can only be used once ( weight each 90-120 kg )…but both have an ignition button of their own..and can be used separately. Definitely the rockets would only extent this kites envelope to supersonic at high with initial speed of around mach 1 with turbofan.

    There is a 95% chance this will never be built. I might do a flying model just to see how well that lay out performs…I might also need some serious help in defining the shape/foil/washout etc for the wing/lifting surface. I could also build small balsamodels to see how they glide ( 1/20 scale etc ).

    Being really small and weighing just 1500-1800 kilos empty this should not be insanely costly as the big fighter jet projects are. BD-10 project was made with just 60 mio USD back in 1980ies ( and that teached a big lesson for all of us ).

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2282323
    topspeed
    Participant

    Well, we will assume that you have convinced me :applause:

    Paralay thanks for bringing the Northrop P.900 pic here.

    I also found this at the secret aeroplanes site.

    http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=398.0;attach=4027;image

    Also Boeing and Lockheed had 29 ft long jet fighters designed.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215627[/ATTACH]

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2282354
    topspeed
    Participant

    I almost entirely certain that this will not work. The PW500 series engines have a bypass ratio much too large for supersonic flight, even when they are “jumped” there using rockets. As you increase in mach number, the optimally efficient bypass ratio drops. At some point, you really lose the ability to produce a meaningful amount of thrust with a high bypass engine. I also think you are greatly overestimating the drop in drag in the supersonic regime.

    More importantly, supersonic aircraft by necessity always have variable convergent divergent exhaust nozzles, which this engine lacks. It is not possible to achieve supersonic flight without this feature, as for an engine to produce thrust, it needs to have a exhaust velocity greater than the aircraft velocity (as I recall at least), and for a turbine engine to produce the required M > 1.0 exhaust velocity, a de-laval type nozzle is required.

    I would strongly advise you to give this line of thinking up- it’s not tenable for quite a few reasons.

    Also, you may find this interesting.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215619[/ATTACH]
    It’s the PZL-230F Skorpion. It’s a subsonic, ground attack aircraft though. It was never completed.

    I hear you…..so the only option is to close the air intakes for supersonic flight with the rockets and shut the PW535F and use it only to loiter and ground attack duties and to gain altitude to go fast with rockets.

    I like Scorpion…maybe I team up with the polish aviation industry to get this going.

    Thanks for the comments..this keeps me focused better..I seem to loose focus and concentration while working on this till 2 o’clock in the morning.

    To the exhaust nozzles…this has even stealth thrust vectoring..originally I wanted to make VTOL…but had to settle for STOL since the engine power is no longer adequate with this “inhalator engine”.

    You are only seeing half of this AC now since I am concealing all details that make this actually work…for certain reasons mentioned here earlier.

    The main point in this is the massive drag reduction by cutting the size down considerably..then is the simple wing and diminutive engine/pilot pod that keeps the weight down…I have hard time figuring how to make this heavier than 1500 kilos empty. Almost definitely this can carry 3500 kg payload…I mean Mtow 5000 kg. This needs about 7-8 kN to go 950-1000 km/h without external load..which makes it possible to fly 2 hours perhaps even longer…and go high as 18-20 km..to start the rocket engines..see what I mean..this can almost go to the moon this little thing with 170 kg/m2 wingloading and almost nonexistent frontal drag.

    – – – Updated – – –

    AMX and Gripen are too small to hold internal bays.
    as for your design, you need space for the air intake, engine, bays, fuel, and avionics.
    if your plane is a modern day Me-163, a country would find it more cheaper and efficient to rely on S-300 instead

    That is where you are wrong..this has all air intakes, and 2 bays for small mach 4 AAMs, ****load of fuel and state of the art avionics.

    Me -163 was 25% bigger than this..this beats Me-163 on both rocket power and turbofan power alone. Only drawback is that this flies even shorter time on rocket power than Me-163..but when it does it goes 3 times faster.

    The size alone indicates that in comparison using the scale factor this GM needs only 11 kN to go 1130 km/h ( top speed of Komet and 17 kN out put ).

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2237046
    topspeed
    Participant

    You’ll have to work hard to justify their doubts :highly_amused:

    http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/GSh-6-30.htm

    Paralay…RpR is correct the A-10 is 16.26 meters long and Flogger is 17 meters even.

    Still A-10 cannon is bigger..but not quite that big as your illustration now indicates.

    Here is my newest with 170 rounds for BK27 27 mm BORDKANONE !

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215614[/ATTACH]

    Also holds 50 rounds more than J-39 Gripen ( 10 short from F-35 ).

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215615[/ATTACH]

    And here with other GATLING cannon istalled small non afterburning turbofan fitted fighters !

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215616[/ATTACH]

    All are in the same scale !

    – – – Updated – – –

    why bother with a small 5th gen fighter?
    it would be too small to have an internal bay, yet it will have all the aerodynamic penalties of a facted design associated with 5th gen aircraft.

    Does it look that way above ?

    – – – Updated – – –

    Here is chart corrected !

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215617[/ATTACH]

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2237606
    topspeed
    Participant

    Really.
    When it is three feet shorter than the Mig and in the diagram is actually longer.

    Try again.

    The Russian cannon is powerful but only to the aircraft carrying it, he can’t shoot it long enough to not shoot himself down, BRILLIANT!

    The russian 30 mm cannon is 50% lighter and also has 1/3 of the ammo. It is in scale all right..just the arrangement is different.

    Anyhow..seems that this is the smallest AC to carry M61; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX_International_AMX

    So the size of the modern fighters is also dependent on the gun it carries…as here Flogger disintegrates almost as it fires the rotary cannon at MACH 2.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215588[/ATTACH]

    AMX top speed is just above 900 km/h.

    Was this too small to carry GAU-12; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaled_Composites_ARES

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG9LlHcX8lg

    in reply to: F-104G vs Mirage-IIIE Comparison #2237701
    topspeed
    Participant

    What air-to-air combat happened at that speed, back then? Average A2A engagements happened between 300-500 KIAS.

    Exactly my point..the F-104 figures for mach 2 speed at 40 000 are based on 16 000 lbs weight…thus there would not have even been a chance to carry missiles..othervise the running time on AB would have been exactly 2 minutes and then fuel was out.

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2237705
    topspeed
    Participant

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215584[/ATTACH]

    Small fighter again…what is this ?

    in reply to: F-104G vs Mirage-IIIE Comparison #2237963
    topspeed
    Participant

    The F-104 could carry the AIM-9 and the AIM-7, probably some others as well. It was not a pure gunfighter.

    But not when going 1350 kts at 40 000 ft ?

    in reply to: F-104G vs Mirage-IIIE Comparison #2237971
    topspeed
    Participant

    I know all about the NF-104 program.

    Simple fact, the 104 and 106 were the only aircraft of their service era that could climb supersonic to reach bombers above 60,000 feet.
    All your prattle about how slow the 104 was, is just prattle.

    The Euro G models were no slower than the U.S. versions.

    Go to these gents site to see what is still flying.

    http://www.starfighters.net/#!__page-0

    If you look at the pictures of the single seaters, the guns are still installed.

    Okay but they had just a gun…a GAU ( horrifying monster by the way ). No missiles I mean right ?

    in reply to: F-104G vs Mirage-IIIE Comparison #2237979
    topspeed
    Participant

    I think I know now where I got a bit erratic…this special flight needed to be flown at nose up AoA ( a lot of it )…and a standard F-104A that otherwise stripped down ( low fuel too ) could have gone 1350 kts couldn’t do it nose up..since it lacked the needed power.

    Are we in agreement now ?

    in reply to: F-104G vs Mirage-IIIE Comparison #2237983
    topspeed
    Participant
    in reply to: F-104G vs Mirage-IIIE Comparison #2237987
    topspeed
    Participant

    Troll, troll, troll your boat….

    I may have miss read it…it was 554 kts !

    Here read your self; http://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1015&context=aerosp

    Output was increased 11.85 times to reach 1450 kts.

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2238032
    topspeed
    Participant

    Russian do very light guns, due to the small resource. GS-301 – 1500 shots. Particularly impressive is the difference between the GS-6-30 and GAU-8

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]215559[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]215560[/ATTACH]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryazev-Shipunov_GSh-6-30
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

    Recoil is 5500 kilos..that should only be fired behind !

    in reply to: F-104G vs Mirage-IIIE Comparison #2238037
    topspeed
    Participant

    “An example of this is the indicated airspeed of 757.5 knots at the start of the record zoom climb1. This speed when corrected to true airspeed at 39,575 feet corresponds to a true airspeed of 1,349.7 knots and a Mach number of 2.35.

    From that link and you learn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalent_airspeed

    😉

    Okay…I think I missed the point here…sure..Space Ship One went mach 3 and IAS was 30 mph.

    Fact is that that craft only managed 540 kts..without the special tuning to go to 759 kt at high.

    in reply to: Size of the new 5th gen fighters…too big !? #2238040
    topspeed
    Participant

    I think that at the present level of technology, it is impossible to create a complete fighter with a takeoff weight of less than 8 – 10 tons. We’ll have to cancel the installation locator, medium-range missiles, supersonic speed, good ejection seat and so on.

    That is the common understanding as we know it right now.

    My rocket assisted supersonic jump to supercruise mode with commercial PW535F might be new to many. It might need special tuning for the inlets to access higher acceleration for the airflow.

    😉

Viewing 15 posts - 2,101 through 2,115 (of 2,657 total)