No, out in the real world lightning sometimes does strike twice. And in this case, similar manoeuvres killed two Northrop test pilots. These things happen – for example, failures in rapid succession of two independent hydraulic systems caused the first F-14 prototype to crash on its second test flight.
Engineers learn to live with such realities. ‘Armchair experts’ are free to believe what they choose.
Well Yaeger flew it and said it is great..he possibly did not log as many hours as the the test pilots committed to the program.
To me these are a spitting image of what happened in ALASKA at the F-22 incident.
Wit 1940ies avionics and a service ability that was unacceptable by any standards.
Apart from that you need to ask yourself what would possible users demand from a new fighter plane.Apart from North Korea very few countries face a threat which could see a huge fleet of complex enemy fighters attacking your key cities.
For me the missions are light fighter needs to be able to handle are.
1. air policing
2. light strike support to ground forces
3. air defence
4. strike missions
5. recceVery few countries would need stealth or rocket like climb rates to fulfill those basic missions. Many however would need range and loiter time. Most would want decent avionics, weapons load and all would want cheap operating costs.
Now I have no idea how you would try to fulfill those needs and keep the costs below an armed Turboprop trainer while using rocket engines, turbofans and stealth features. Not to speak of the operational costs of rocket engines, which are not designed for many use cycles.
Okay here is fitted for one single 29 kN PW307A…for just those missions !
It is just as long a FJ-1. Not quite as “FAT”.
Darn the frontal area also grew to 1.594 m2.
Really? i thought they are called Trolls here :confused:
Yeah really…there was even a document about it recently.
Gene technology at its peak !
What is that latter beast ?
:rolleyes:
Stalin actually did produce gorilla/human hybrid..problem was they weren’t breeding.
Unfortunately, they do. And I personally knew one that did. May he rest in peace.
I respectfully suggest that you google for and read:
AIR FORCE PAMPHLET 11-419
and
Service Inquiry Hawk T MK1 XX179 Findings Continued
These will tell you quite a bit about G-Loc. The second document (now declassified) contains descriptions written by pilots who suffered it and survived to tell the tale.
No not two test pilots on a same plane type they don’t.
had some second thoughts about this…
-keep the OBOGS.. there are some very lightweight units out there for not much money.
-use ME163 style “dolly” gear for takeoff. and do belly land on soft surface for landing. increases internal space for missiles, eliminates complex hydraulics etc…
-no hydraulics in aircraft at all. motor actuated surfaces and fly by light. eliminate mechanics.
-no analogue displays or instruments, no HUD, just one LCD and lightweight HMD for pilot.
-MB Mk19 ejector seat.not sure about the inclusion or not of a radar… perhaps there can be two “versions” one with and one without radar, both BVR AAM capable of course. that way you can have a flight of 3-4 of these fighters up in the air sharing intelligence and one fighter, equipped with radar, can briefly designate target if need be for another shooter.
You can also have different “versions” of the same aircraft. one “interceptor with a rocket booster. and one “attack aircraft” with the turbofan and extra fuel.
keep price below that of a SuperTucano somehow.
At least this can have shorter gear legs.
You forget one thing with this old fighters, they had service lifes measured in hundreds of flight hours and single years, not like todays fighter designed to last 16.000+ hours and 25-40 years. Just look up the time between main overhaul for Chinese improvements on the MiG-17 or MiG-19 designs. They have to go for a major overhaul at rates, where modern western fighters will hardly ever have their engine removed at all.
P-51Ds were in use still in 1980s in some AFs.
So you think that you know better than the Northrop engineers, and USAF and Canadian Aviation Safety Board officials who investigated the two F-20 crashes? And the sole data source you are offering in support of this contention is that highly-respected technical publication “The Los Angeles Times”?
The memories of both pilots are ill-served by amateur theories based on newspaper reports.
In the runup to his crash, Darrell Cornell was flying a climbing roll manoeuvre.
In the second case you cited, David Barnes was not “coming into land”, but had just completed a fast low-level pass that was due to end with a sharp pull up and climbing spiral. From the peak of that manoevre, a slow descent was planned leading to a turn for landing. Things started going wrong during that pull-up.
The F-20 was fitted with an OBOGS, and since those days, the use of such systems is becoming more widespread. They are used in the Gripen, Rafale, Mitsubishi F-2, F-16 (from Block 50 onwards), the Yak-130, and a range of modern trainers. At least one F-5 customer is reported to have retrofitted an OBOGS to its F-5 fleet. So if there was any generic flaw in the concept, it would have emerged by now.
Yes I am saying that cause OBOGS system flaws weren’t known by then. Trained pilots don’t die like that on their jets.
double post
Certainly this is not for everyone..smaller is always smaller. But if it can do the job… intercept…efficiently then it will do.
History glance;
Dardo 1980 kg empty; http://www.aviastar.org/air/italy/ambrosini_s-403.php
http://kiwiwebhost.exon.net.nz/~terryjs/index.php/home2/871-ambrosisi-sai403-dardo
He-162 1669 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_162
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/1997/06/stuff_eng_detail_he162.htm
YAK-3 was 2100 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-3
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/yak3/yak3vk107/yak3vk107.html ( a metric tonne lighter than its predecessor YAK-9U )
Mig-15 3600 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-15
http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/militaryaircraft/p/MiG-15.htm
Folland Gnat 2175 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folland_Gnat
http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/gnat/history.php ( proto just 1550 kg ! )
Helwan HA-300 3200 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helwan_HA-300
F-5 Freedom Fighter 4350 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5
A-4 Skyhawk 4750 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-4_Skyhawk
Mig-21 5000 kg empty; http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiG-21
In comparison;
P-47 was 4500 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_P-47_Thunderbolt
F-6F only 4200 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_F6F_Hellcat
He-219 11 200 kg empty; http://www.aviastar.org/air/germany/he-219.php
F-86 Sabre 5000 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_F-86_Sabre
F-4 13 800 kg empty; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II
have you figured out any possible loiter times with the amount of internal fuel you plan for the plane?
With drop tanks 2 hours at full power. 3,5 hr at cruise ( 1000 km/t ).
See the engine ( x 3 ) moves this; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNwGz7kCRfA
Cabin 6’2” high and 7’8” wide. What do you make for the frontal area of that !
Frontal area in 20 m2….just counted it.
Internal fueel has increased..at around 1600 kg. It can loiter around 2 hrs with..if not more.
Best aircraft ever designed..F-16 XL ?!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Et0IfWHw8
Supercruise and load capacity to carry two Cadillacs ( 12 000 kg ) !
Cranked Arrow Delta Winged XL 125 kN; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Dynamics_F-16XL
Bigger F-15 220 kN carries 18 000 kg ( can be loaded with ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F-15_Eagle
How can you get a G-LOC if you are preparing to land ?
http://articles.latimes.com/1985-05-15/news/mn-8541_1_test-pilot
Or flyin slow flaps extended; http://articles.latimes.com/1985-01-22/business/fi-11089_1_pilot-error
Although I like what you are doing with this, I am struggling to find a purpose for this fighter in real conditions.
Your plane with rockets on will be as visilble to attackers as any SAM would be, without rockets on, it is not powerful enough to get into a fight with any kinematic parity.
What would be useful, would be if this plane was fully capable but at this size. Which I doubt one can do without a revolutionary new engine design.
Please read the previous two posts too.
I think the PW307A could do with a bit tuning.
This has more than 1:1 power to weight ratio..and if used only for interception the PW307A variation would do.
Did F-20 have an OBOGS system as well ?
Two test pilots died for G-LOC…I don’t buy it.