The F-35’s cost is already (Per LRIP4 contracts) $25 million cheaper than FY2009 F-22s at 30 a year pricing. When it reaches 150 a year it will be South of $80 mil.

You use the expression “it will be”. Where F-35 is concerned almost all statements by LM about what the future holds for the F-35 have been wrong. Personally I will be surprised if the price ever drops below $100 million unless the price is quoted with omissions to systems eg the price is $90 million (but you have to pay extra for the radar, MAWS etc).

I am suggesting exactly that.

Oman has traditionally had three frontline squadrons (the Hawks are essentially trainers, notwithstanding the fact that some of them are 200s). Two Jaguar, one F-16. As a result of attrition, the Jaguar force struggles to equip two full squadrons, especially since it cannot now rely on the UK for conversion training.

The F-16 has taken over the AD commitment from the Jaguar, but is seen in Oman as being the Jaguar’s eventual replacement, leaving a requirement for an AD focused aircraft to replace the F-16.

The process will be like the UK’s Phantom role switch – in reverse!

We know that the RAFO is expanding AND modernising, and I have good reason to believe that the plan is for 4 squadrons in the medium term. Two F-16 (which is why the recent deal came as no surprise), one Jaguar, and one Typhoon. The big question will be what will then replace the last Jaguars.

Haven’t you answered your own question when you ask what will replace the last Jaguars? To wit: “The F-16… is seen in Oman as being the Jaguar’s eventual replacement”

Is not the question more of what will replace the F-16 in air defence? According to the report I’ve read, the deal price for 10 single seat and 2 dual seat F-16’s was $600 million ie $50 million per frame.

‘Announcing the deal in a 14 December contract notification, the US Department of Defense said Muscat will acquire 10 single-seat fighters and a pair of two-seat trainers under a deal worth $600 million.’

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/omani-f-16-deal-means-continued-wait-for-eurofighter-366030/

How would be the cost of two squadrons of new-build Typhoons compare with the cost of the best available F-16 for the AD role? Would that be the block 60 version? If the best F-16 for AD use is no better than Typhoon with Captor for air defence, why does Oman not just buy 25 or so ex-RAF Typhoons when they are ditched due to the cost of upgrading? I see no reason why 25 aircraft that would otherwise be scrapped or cannibalised should not be sold for less than $1 billion.

rafale dont?

you should read the evaluation where they were pitteed against each other.. the gripen was “better” only on price…

Price itself can make an aircraft “better” if it leaves funds in your budget to procure further systems to make your military stronger overall.

now add into that an aircraft made in a country not having the same costs as the rafale, using some systems as deemed necessary (you have to consider that yugoslavia was far from having swedens budget, which means that the fighter had to be cheap to buy and operate and you get a fighhter whose performance against the gripen would depend on the systems they put in, but whose price would most certainly be below

Something of a more basic European Tejas with option to increase capability to the level required by the customer?

What the F-16 deal does is guarantee that the Typhoon order will remain a small one, probably without a follow-on buy.

Not too financially viable buying a small number of Typhoons, is it? The logistics support, training cost etc for say 12 Typhoons is not 25% of that for 48, is it? What would it cost for 48, I wonder: 50%-100% more than for 12? If Oman wanted a higher performance aircraft than the block 50 F-16, would it not be far, far cheaper to buy some block 60’s?

Crikey. Those figures are surprising. The 75% over-priced Typhoon starts to look cheap.

Rafale Unit Programme Cost: €142.3 m
Typhoon Unit Programme Cost: £113.49 m
Rafale Unit production cost: between €64-70 m and €101.1 m
Typhoon Unit production cost: between £42.42 m and £45 m

I guess that economies of scale and a higher production rate have an effect.

The navy version increases the Rafale costs significantly. (aircraft carrier trials are very expensive, and Rafale M airframes are also more expensive than B and C)
For a more relavant comparison you should only take the Rafale B/C version developement and production costs into acount

What does surprise me is that the unit production cost for Rafale B/C appears to be higher than for Typhoon (at current exchange rates).

Given that the £/€ exchange rate has moved dramatically in recent years, I wonder what the unit production cost was for German Typhoons when it was between £42.42 m and £45 m for UK assembled Typhoons. Converted to euros say @ £1 = €1.5, those UK sterling numbers would have been equivalent to between about €64 million and €67 million ie about the same as Rafale B/C.

So if a potential customer were to order Rafales or Typhoons from Germany, which would be more expensive to produce? I do not see those Rafales costing between €64-70 m to produce while German Typhoons cost between €49.9-52.4 m (UK cost converted to euros at current exchange rate).

I have never heard it suggested that it costs 25%+ more to produce 1 Rafale B/C than 1 Typhoon, so I think the UK figures given are of little value when comparing unit production cost of the two aircraft.

@USS novice – yes, it’s rate of climb

That’s another point. If Dassault significantly discounts their offer of 22 Rafales, I don’t imagine India and Brazil will want to pay the “regular” sticker price for their potential 126 & 36(?) units. So there’s potentially a lot of lost profit there.

You lose a lot less profit than if your competitor offers a discount and gets the deal (and still makes a decent profit).

Here gang, a related answer to an exchange of jokes
that we had with EELightning on the Rafale thread and
should be even more at home here :

I thought about it and got an idea :
Schweiz gets Gripen C/Ds with upgrade
to replace the Tigers …
thus providing the conditions of the NG’s development …
and later full NGs to replace the Hornets?
🙂

IIRC Sweden has commited to a small number of NG’s so they were coming anyway. I imagine the Swiss order (if there is one in the end) will accelerate development.