Spitfire9OK.. No problem..
I was completely correct here for saying that the UK doesn’t make anything worth having
I live in the UK a couple of miles away from a factory that is expanding production to keep up with worldwide demand. Are you sure that you’re right in saying that McLaren road cars aren’t worth having and the hundreds of clients they sell to each year are so stupid that they will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a heap of worthless ****?
Spitfire9Can anyone cast some light for me on how being in or out of the EU has an effect on the UK aerospace industry? The UK’s principal trading partners may be the countries in the EU but I don’t think that which trading block you are associated with has much bearing on selling aircraft components or entire aircraft. US airlines buy Airbus products and EU airlines buy Boeing products regardless of whether there is import tax to be paid. Import taxes are irrelevant where military aircraft are concerned (the customer is always a government, so any import tax is paid by the government concerned to itself).
Spitfire9Name one EU rule that stops you doing what you want and that you’ll be able to do once we’re outside the EU?
How about how tomatoes have to be for me to be able to buy them? Here’s the EU law/rule/directive concerned:
COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 918/94 of 26 April 1994 derogating from Regulation (EEC) No 778/83 laying down quality standards for tomatoes, as regards tomatoes attached to the stalk (trusses of tomatoes)
THE COMMISSION OF THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES,
Having regard to the Treaty establishing the European Community,
Having regard to Council Regulation (EEC) No 1035/72 of 18 May 1972 on the common organization of the market in fruit and vegetables (1), as last amended by Regulation (EC) No 3669/93 (2), and in particular Article 2 (2) thereof,
Whereas Commission Regulation (EEC) No 778/83 (3), as last amended by Regulation (EEC) No 1657/92 (4), laid down quality standards for tomatoes; whereas demand for products in a different presentation has developed; whereas experience gained on the market has shown that there is a particular demand for tomatoes attached to the stalk (trusses of tomatoes); whereas it should be permitted to market such produce for a limited trial period with the aim of seeing whether there is a continuing demand from consumers;
Whereas the measures provided for in this Regulation are in accordance with the opinion of the Management Committee for Fruit and Vegetables,
HAS ADOPTED THIS REGULATION:
Article 1
1. Until the end of the 1994 marketing year and by derogation from the quality standard for tomatoes as laid down in the Annex to Regulation (EEC) No 778/83 the marketing of tomatoes attached to the stalk (trusses of tomatoes) is permitted, provided that such tomatoes are classified in the ‘extra’ class or class ‘I’ and comply with all the criteria laid down for the class in question, other than the exceptions mentioned in paragraph 2.
2. Tomatoes attached to the stalk (trusses of tomatoes) must be packed in packages of uniform contents.
The stalks of tomatoes attached to the stalk (trusses of tomatoes) must be fresh, healthy, clean and free from all leaves and any visible foreign matter.
As regards sizing, the minimum size for tomatoes attached to the stalk (trusses of tomatoes) is set at 35 mm. The sizing scale laid down in heading III ‘Provisions concerning sizing’ point B of the Annex to Regulation (EEC) No 778/83 shall not apply to such tomatoes.
As regards marking each package containing tomatoes attached to the stalk (trusses of tomatoes) must bear, besides the particulars mentioned in heading VI ‘Provisions concerning marking’ points A, C, D and E of the Annex to Regulation (EEC) No 778/83, the words ‘trusses of tomatoes’.
Article 2
This Regulation shall enter into force on the third day following its publication in the Official Journal of the European Communities.
This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States.
Done at Brussels, 26 April 1994.
For the Commission
René STEICHEN
Member of the Commission
(1) OJ No L 118, 20. 5. 1972, p. 1.
(2) OJ No L 338, 31. 12. 1993, p. 26.
(3) OJ No L 86, 31. 3. 1983, p. 14.
(4) OJ No L 172, 27. 6. 1992, p. 53.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1467926960331&uri=CELEX:31994R0918
Utterly unnecessary. Puts the price of food up (I and millions of others have to pay extra because of the waste in tomatoes not meeting regulations). Impairs the taste of tomatoes since growers have to pick them when they reach a certain size and if they are not ripe, then turn them red by bathing them in methane… etc etc etc
Want a few hundred/thousand more examples of stupidity imposed on EU citizens? Just look at EU law.
PS Apart from denying me the opportunity of buying tomatoes which stupid mother nature has decided will not all be within EU-permissible dimensions, the fools who came up with these dictates did not do it out of the goodness of their hearts. I wonder how much it cost for this idiocy to be devised, discussed and dictated to European tax payers.
Spitfire9Ah, there is comes.. you simply want to retain all the pros of the EU trade but at the same time stay completely detached from the cons which it inevitably brings.. In other words, we’re divorcing and I will be f*cking around with whomever I want but you will still pay my cheques, darling.. and if you won’t, I will call you a tyrannous ba$tard.
What are the cons you mention where trade is concerned? Are you talking about country A making widgets more cheaply than country B so that the widget industry in country B cannot compete in the market? About fidelity and paying cheques: no country in the EU has ever undertaken to trade exclusively with other members of the EU. Paying cheques: I think that if you cheque your history you will find that the UK signs cheques to the EU each year whose total value exceeds the total value of cheques received by the UK from the EU.
You might have completely omitted the import taxes/VAT which the Brexit will bring.. Your exports will not get cheaper, they will get more expensive and much more complicated..
Exports are already cheaper due to the fall in the value of the GBP. Again, domestic sales taxes (VAT in the EU) are not levied on exports since the goods/services have not been sold in the domestic market. Import tax on UK goods/services – would be economic insanity for the EU members.
Spitfire9Why should I care about your unemployment rates?
One reason is that disposable income is usually lower for people without jobs. That means they buy less, including products and services from other countries in the EU. Lower demand for those means fewer people are needed to produce those goods and services.
Why would I continue trading with UK-based companies when I suddenly need to lose time and money with declarations, import taxes, VAT and all the nonsense at the border? I simply switch to someone based in NL or Belgium and that’s it.
Try getting other countries to absorb Mercedes production that was exported to UK. If Mercedes are already exported to NL and Belgium, the demand for those cars is already satisfied so you cannot simply switch to selling cars to them. Import taxes – don’t see them being imposed. It might be what the European Commission would like to do but I think the heads of state of the larger economies in the EU would find a way of preventing the European Commission introducing measures that could cause significant damage to their economies. VAT is not payable on exports, so whether you export from France to a UK in the EU or from France to a UK that is not in the EU should make no difference.
Agreed, a little more paperwork might be required but not a lot (unless the EU made the paperwork more complicated than it needed to be). I live in the UK at the moment. I complete a VAT declaration every 3 months which asks for the value of goods/services exported by my company to other EU countries and similarly asks for the value of goods/services imported by the company from other EU countries. I have to make those declarations whether I trade with EU or not. I don’t see any reason why being in an EU country or not being in an EU country should make any difference to how much time it takes to fill in the form.
Spitfire9Ottawa to Develop New Requirements for Fighter Jet Purchase
OTTAWA — Ottawa will scrap the requirements that were developed by the Canadian Forces and used by the previous Conservative government to justify the sole-source purchase of F-35s, giving itself leeway to buy another aircraft to replace Canada’s aging fleet of CF-18s.
The move stands to change the outcome of one of the biggest and most controversial military procurements in Canadian history.
The federal government will ask the Forces to develop new criteria for the $10-billion contract six years after the first set was delivered, giving Ottawa unusual power over the procurement process. It allows the Liberal government to launch a competition for new fighter jets while knowing the contract will not go directly to the aircraft that it has so often criticized in the past.
Spitfire9Eurofighter Fires Storm Shadow In First Live Test
Spitfire9Gotta say I don’t understand why the expression by a narrow majority of a nation’s electorate to leave a political union that aims for closer and closer political union should herald economic disaster. If EU politicians are prepared to create problems with regard to trade between a previous member and the remaining EU members to discourage any other members taking steps to see if their electorate would like to leave, they will be doing their economies (and citizens) a grave disservice: employment adversely affected; balance of trade adversely affected; government fiscal position adversely affected… What possible economic benefit could they have (barring a transfer of financial transactions from London to Frankfurt)?
As for the effect on UK aerospace activity, what possible advantage would it be to Airbus to dispense with the mature wing design and production capability offered by the UK? We are not talking about the domain of military production which lives in a cloud cuckoo world in which the customer is prepared to pay 50% or 100% more to buy an aircraft that is made domestically. We are talking about making aircraft that sell into a world market in which only 2 companies in the world have the design and production knowhow to do it so successfully that they command the world market. To give some idea of the scale of the business involved, Airbus has an order backlog of 6,000+ aircraft. Not sure of the value but I think that the average value of each aircraft on order will be $50 million or more. That’s an order book of $300+ billion. Every single one of those aircraft is lifted off the runway by wings built with UK expertise. I do not think that Airbus would want to take the risk of developing wing design and production in France or Germany because the UK was leaving the EU. Remember that Airbus operate in the real world. Politicians pursuing a creaking United States of Europe ideal do not need to pay as much attention to economic reality.
Spitfire9Typhoon with P3E Weapons Fit to Fly At Major Air Shows
At RIAT the display will demonstrate Typhoon carrying four Meteor Beyond Visual Range Air to Air missiles, two Brimstone 2 low collateral precision strike weapons, two ASRAAM missiles and two Paveway IV laser guided precision weapons.
I have no idea how much that loadout will limit G. Any ideas?
Spitfire9Not quite that simple, many of the parts are made in the UK. Sure it will go up, but really we’re looking at less than 10% here, which is far less than the Mediterranean debt crisis affected the Euro over the last 6 years. So really our problem is less than say Italy’s.
Just saying that when it comes to paying for F-35B aircraft, their sterling cost (which is what matters to the UK government) looks like it will be more than what was budgeted for. I’m not convinced that LM will fully pass on the reduced $US cost of UK-sourced components.
Spitfire9The FTSE 250 is currently just below 16000. In the last three months, it’s only been at or below that level since Friday morning.
The pound is currently at USD1.34, 138 yen, 1.21 euros. The euro has been badly affected by Brexit, like the pound, so that rate is a bad measure. Sterling is at its lowest rate against the yen for about 3 years, & against the USD for a very long time indeed.
One problem for the UK is that it has committed to buying quite a few STOVL aircraft which are $US denominated. The futures trade chart I’ve just looked at (http://futures.tradingcharts.com/marketquotes/B6.html) shows sterling trades at around US$1.35 in 2018/2019. Looks like F-35B is going to cost more than it was going to cost a few days ago.
Spitfire9After this outcome Brits deserve a PM like Boris the bafoon. There will be significant impact on UK aviation both commercial and defence.
Europeans always had misgivings about UK and now will take their pound of flesh. Forget any nicely packaged deals with a sorry to see you leave card.
A week has passed since 52% of votes cast in the referendum were in favour of leaving the (evolved) club the UK joined primarily for trade reasons. It seems that a significant proportion of the population of a number of EU countries is unhappy with the nature of the EU. Why the other EU countries should wish to punish a member which chooses to leave a club whose rules have changed to its dislike is a mystery to me.
A (very marginal) majority of UK voters expressed a desire to leave the EU. Is that going to be seismic economically? I don’t think there will be an earthquake. More like an economic tremor. Has sterling fallen dramatically against the euro? I don’t call a fall in spot rate since 23rd June from £1 = ~1.30 euros to £1 = ~1.20 euros a dramatic fall.
Are the ongoing EU countries going to take steps to suppress trade with the UK? Not unless they’re economically insane. France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and probably many others have a far higher unemployment rate than that of the UK. Do they want to sell less to the UK? Remember that the UK has a monthly trade deficit of ~£8 billion with the other EU countries (Feb/Mar/Apr 2016 source: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/balance-of-trade).
PS The UK has not left the EU. It is still a member and will almost certainly remain so for a minimum of 2 more years.
Addition:
The question asked is what impact Brexit would have on UK aviation? Reduced overseas investment? Don’t really see why, myself, unless sterling strengthens to make exports more expensive without attendant productivity increases. Will Airbus give up buying wings for the A320, A330, A350, A380 from BAE Systems? If so, how will these aircraft ever get off the ground? Will Eurojet stop fitting RR components in the EJ200? Will Eurofighter make Typhoon without a front fuselage and fin?
Spitfire9I see.
Well here is a more balanced review of the mission and expected in service schedule for Typhoon and Storm Shadow:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]246732[/ATTACH]
It says:
Work is currently under way to integrate Storm Shadow onto the RAF’s Eurofighter Typhoons, an activity which comes under the P2E development effort that will also add MBDA’s Meteor beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile. Both weapons are due to be fully operational on the Typhoon by 2018, and a final release of Storm Shadow from the platform was due to be conducted in mid-June.
I note that the last release was due mid-June. Given that the article was published today (29th June), I guess it has not happened.
Spitfire9India considers additional 30-unit Hawk buy
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-considers-additional-30-unit-hawk-buy-426642/
Spitfire9The BJP led NDA Govt. with PM Modi and DM Parrikar is scrupulously clean. The kind of hanky panky that was going on for the 10 years that the Congress led UPA Govt. is now mostly a thing of the past. So far, not a single scam or even any major allegation that has surfaced. What this govt. has managed to do is to bring in a sea change in the bureaucracy itself, with officers noted for their integrity and hard work, being brought in from different departments, from across the country. The paralysis in policy and decision making that afflicted the bureaucracy, especially in the second term of the UPA Govt., is now on the way out.
Hope your forecast proves to be correct.
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