Rafale never had $60-65m fly away cost. more than a a billion Euro is sent to Dassualt each year to produce 8 to 10 Rafale. this much money is needed to get Rafale from production line. and i presume Indian production line figures will be way higher due to lack of productivity.
Dassault assemble 11 Rafale a year. What is your source giving their cost as more than a a billion Euro?
Early 2012 the rate was fluctuating around $1.3 per euro (range about 1.25-1.35), so $60-65 mn would have been 46-50 mn euros. Still unrealistic (significantly less than France pays), but a fair bit more than 40 million.
It should be noted that between Jan 2012 (when Rafale was selected) and now the Indian Rupee has suffered severe depreciation against the euro – you now need almost 30% more rupees to buy the same number of euros you could have bought in Jan 2012. I think that almost all Dassault’s costs are in euros so what counts is the euro value of any deal (whatever currency is used in a sales contract). It looks like the Indian state will need to find a lot more rupees to finance a Rafale deal. That could present problems in terms of getting the deal sanctioned.
In January 2012, when Rafale was declared the winner, its price was quoted between $60-65 million (Rs373-Rs400 crore). A top defence ministry official said the price of a fighter jet made by Dassault could now cost $120 million (Rs746 crore). The second bidder, Eurofighter, had quoted $80-85 million (Rs497-Rs528 crore). [/I]
I find that there are many statements made by officials and IAF/ex-IAF personnel that later prove not to be correct. Who is the “top defence ministry official” quoted? Is he a reliable source with access to the numbers given?
That would make more sense if the UAE hadn’t rejected the Rafale well before anything changed with Iran, only to evaluate the Eurofighter for a while before ultimately rejecting it as well.
I don’t think that UAE rejected Rafale per se. IIRC they did not want to pay the price they were asked to pay (including desired developments). UAE then publicly berated the offer and started talking to Eurofighter. I imagine that price was again a problem. That left ordering more F-16 as the obvious solution.
I imagine that UAE has opted to buy another squadron+ of F-16 aircraft and in a few years will start looking again for aircraft to replace M2K. By that time Rafale may have some extra features/improvements that would avoid UAE needing to pay extra for those features/improvements.
two things….
1) Spitfire9 did you mean PWII or were you being funny?
Sorry, meant the 500lb Paveway IV. That is in the process of being integrated IIRC.
I sense a lack of appreciation of how groups work to attain an objective. You don’t need each member of a team to contribute exactly the same abilitiies on a greater or smaller scale. Each member of the team will have different qualities to devote to achieving the objective IMO.
For example, few countries have carriers. Does that mean that in an operation where carriers are useful non-carrier states cannot make a useful contribution in other ways?
Point is, there is little to suggest that the F-16’s upgrade prospects are bleak compared to the Gripen, going into the future.
You seem to have a GSOH.
Singapore to has signed an unannounced contract to purchase A330MRTT tanker according to Air&Cosmos (French) website
http://www.air-cosmos.com/defense/singapour-choisit-l-a330-mrtt-d-airbus.html
De sources gouvernementales et industrielles concordantes, Singapour aurait signé courant 2013 un contrat pour l’achat de six ravitailleurs A330 MRTT.
My loose translation: According to consistent governmental and industry sources Singapore is reported to have signed a contract for the purchase of 6 MRTT tankers in 2013.
Testing will soon begin on the next-generation Block 4 software expected to provide a significant capability boost to Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/f-35-awaits-capability-boost-from-block-4-software-395125/
PS Sorry if already posted.
Even before reading the article I have said to myself -whoever finds a buyer for their 2000-9s, wins a deal-. The text only confirms it.
I think only Dassault has some chance to do it, they should try their luck in South America, Asia or Maghrib.
ROCAF, anyone?
Fall out with China to get a $5-$10 bllion Rafale deal? I guess that could suit Dassault but would the French state allow it?
If Gripen E was an American project then everyone would be buying it and it would be heresy to question the wisdom of doing so. The notion of buying Sweden’s F-35 would be laughed out the door. It really is that simple.
Never truer words written on this site.:applause:
If they wanted a F-16 class replacement, well.. the F-16 is still in production. No training hassles. Same support infrastructure. Transferable spares, munitions etc..
Indeed. The F-16 is an alternative. No axe to grind here – I’m curious why no existing European F-16 user is considering it. I imagine that it is because Gripen is a newer design with ongoing development guaranteed for decades to come.
Which raises the question – what’s the purposes of the air force? Why maintain it at all? Or alternatively, why not get an air policing force – Hawk 200/T-50?
The purpose of the air force is not to buy US fighters. The purpose of an air force is not to seek commonality with the fighter that the US has chosen to buy so that as a NATO member one flies the same aircraft as the US. The purpose of an air force is not to severely curtail the country’s defence capability by buying a US fighter that one’s country cannot afford.
I take it that you are suggesting that if a country cannot afford F-35 than the alternative is not to buy the obvious alternative that it can afford (Gripen for European F-16 users) but to downgrade to much less capable lower cost aircraft. Why would a country do this?
The truth is that the F-35 will cost European F-16 users far more than they were led to believe by LM. That is a major headache for them (Norway excepted).
…I certainly would not mind if my country purchased an US-made aircraft if it was in Gripen class when it comes to acquisition and operating cost.
Go back 10 years: that is what the European F-16 users chose to do. They planned to succeed F-16 with a later generation US frame with similar costs to F-16. Unfortunately years after that decision was taken – and despite constant assurances by LM that F-35 would meet that requirement – it became apparent that there was no later generation US frame with similar costs to F-16.
…But agreed, Euro-made stuff is preferred anytime, for obvious reasons. Gripen is the way to go for me.
Had the European F-16 users known that LM was feeding them false hopes of F-35 affordability they might have approached SAAB with a proposal for a share in producing a post Gripen C design (perhaps incorporating the Eurojet engine). Too late now. However since F-35 will mean severe cutbacks in other areas of defence budgets if it is acquired, Gripen still makes sense for Belgium, Denmark and The Netherlands IMO. OK, The Netherlands has bought a couple of F-35 aircraft but they only cost $67 million each if I recall LM correctly so it is better to write off that cost and switch to Gripen before any more of the defence budget is wasted.