1947 – the year I was born, seems so long ago.

A query on behalf of a college.

He’s modelling a Gloster Gladiator which hie wants to paint to represent one of the squadrons based on Crete around the time of the German invasion. He’s been looking for references for No 33, 80 and 112 squadron but has come across only black and white pics and diagrams relating to Greece.

What he’s looking to answer is:

– What was the camoflauge scheme used while the aircraft were on Crete or was it squadron dependant. Also, did they use a solid or two-town bottom colour scheme.

– What was the roundel type in use at the time or again, did it vary by squadron.

Any answers, reference pics gratefully received.

AFAIK it will be Black/White unders with a shadow shaded top scheme – Dark Green/Dark Earth/Light Green/Light Earth. The demarcations for the top colours are approx. half way up the fuselage in a wavy line and the upper surface of the bottom wing has the lighter tones. This is the standard form for camoed RAF biplanes of the period. It also applied with colour changes to naval aircraft as well.

HTH

There is a Great Hampden in Buckinghamshire UK, not a million miles away from Radlett.

Well let’s face it – the Hampden was not all that great, probably just barely adequate so Great Hampden would have been a bit of a misnomer.

Imagine the crew responses –

Wing Commander Training – “Sergeant Jones you have been assigned to Hampdens”

Sergeant Jones – ” Oh that’s just Great sir !!! 🙁 “

Nicely misleading. 😉

So basically they’re saying its a cow of an aeroplane, 😀

Sorry couldn’t help myself.

I think you are right, but I will be looking never-the-less.

At the moment I’m leaning towards the Douglas Aircraft KOmercial TAransport story. As the name Dakota is far too obscure to find its way into British aircraft designations in 1940 (at least I find it obscure).

Were the British Dakota I specially produced for the British, or was it just a number of aircraft shipped?

Sorry but Dakota is not obscure to anyone even before the war. First it was a Sioux sub-group tribal name, then Dakota Territory, then when statehood arrived North and South Dakota. You forget the extensive penetration of western penny dreadfuls, then films well before WW2 into western culture. Hell, Deadwood a famous old western town was slap in the middle of the Dakota territory.

As I noted in a previous post out here in Australia people like my parents, both of whom served in Papua New Guinea during WW2 preferred to call them DC3s, – that is I assume because they would have been familiar with them before WW2 as civilian airliners. They were the latest thing in those pre-war days. The RAAF impressed the civil ones in 1939 then later received C47s (Dakotas) but they were always DC3s to my parents – they never referred to then as Dakotas, always DC3s or Biscuit Bombers.

Dakota was a British name, not US because they called them Skytrains amongst other things. Frankly that pseudo acronym Douglas Aircraft KOmercial TAransport just seems too contrived. However as ever I’ll accept proof to the contrary.

When I say caught on, I mean with the general public (commonwealth side) calling any DC-3 they saw a Dakota. Example my grandfather called them all Dakotas, and he knew better, friends call them Dakotas and they don’t know any different.

My mum and dad both in New Guinea in WW2 called them the Biscuit Bomber. But they also referred to them as DC3s rather than Dakotas. However the DC3 was used in Australia prior to the war in airline service, so they probably picked up the terminology then.

Interesting tale isn’t it? I wonder if there were many other cases out there of aerial treachery where a squadron or unit had traitors in their midst, or an individual turned the tables and worked for the opposition. Stories of sabotage and turncoats in the Air Force at war.

There was the story of a Czech? pilot (in Aeroplane Monthly) who apparently defected with his Hurricane to the Germans after the BoB. From what I remember he did not survive long after the war.

It was a Native American tribe name, a ‘tribal’ name for transport aircraft types, as Malcolm stated.

The US bombers were named after cities and places, in line with the existing RAF’s policy of Empire names and places, and using American examples for the American types. Flying boats were named after maritime locations etc – Catalina anyone? While trainers were named after American Universities – Yale, Harvard etc – again in line with existing RAF policies of British versions of the above.

The rarity of dedicated transports in the RAF may explain the lack of alternatives, and the policy wasn’t inflexible and developed through the inter war period.

The Boeing website’s examples is a fine example of the unreliability of modern corporate data on historic info and a fine example also of back-formation bull.

Cheers,

Thanks James – In answer to your question (if it was) Catalina is from Santa Catalina Island off the coast of California.