Well in the case of Largs Bay it was turn around time. Australia was getting a nearly new ship in a very short time frame.

Turn around time was definitely the clincher for the purchase, with Bill & Ben out of action Tobroken ready to sink the Government needed a win in the media, but it was a very good buy, pitty we blew up the transformers a month after we got her 🙁 she is still out of action and sitting alongside

What astounded me was the purchase afterwards of the Skandi Bergen ? They used money out of an already tight and drastically cut Defence Budget and it will be transferred to Customs when the Phatships are commissioned

Cheers

Not if we’re going to continue to lockstep with the Americans around the globe and into a new Cold War with China, no. Only sovereign nations need credible military forces. Vassals need only token capabilities to reassure their lords of continued fealty.

OK then :rolleyes: I will back away, not make any sudden moves and make no eye contact !

Because we sold Largs Bay for significantly less then what it cost to build. UK yards are just not cheap when it comes to bashing steel!

A foreign navy can get the same design from other yards for significantly less even within Europe!

Absolutely, and then have a look at some of the touted prices the South Korean yards will make an LHA, LHD, LPD etc for and why would you want to buy a second hand ship 🙂

Every material LMA puts out does not have to go through the USAF or the DOD. If they present articles, opinions and marketing snippets based on information that is deemed unclassified and free for distribution then i do not see why the DOD would have to vet that information. As has been said, performance numbers can be interpreted in a 100 different ways to suite your claims, this is the brilliance of marketing and one reason why every Weapons manufacturer claims (with supporting evidence) that its weapon is the best .

Doesn’t it now ? When I worked for Defence Security Branch it did then, and I doubt very much it would be any different now. It is possible already released material may be re-used in updated interviews, press releases etc but with strict guidelines.

Information that is deemed Unclassified ? who do you think classified the information and released it for public use ? BTW Unclassified is still a security classification the same as Restricted, Confidential etc etc and can’t be just used as you please, you still need to have it cleared for public release.

We all know how anyone on any side of a discussion will manipulate figures for their side of the story, I do not and have not ever argued to the contrary, What I was saying is why do people seem to think LM is any different to any other aircraft manufacturer, or any other large business around the world ? They are all full of **** and they all put their product forward in the best possible way, if that involves a little or a lot or marketing spin so what ? That is business, god knows Boeing, Dassault, Eurofighter or any bank, car company, you name it, they all do it, people just need to get over it 🙂

Cheers

Cheers

but only the USA and the UK will be able to use it as it was intended to be used . Do you think that Netherlands , Italy , Canada , Australia or Denmark would try to go over Chinese airspace with the F-35 ??

Please educate us all on the future doctrine of the above nations to support your claims ?

Cheers

The thing with Tall claims (at least those made by western defense contractors) is that usually they are rebutted fairly quickly and in a short time we get a pretty good picture of what is the factual position vs the glossed over one. So no matter what LMA claims, once the DOD is done testing the F-35, and publish the targets achieved we will know the real deal. Things like RCS etc will never be known, what will be known whether the F-35 met, exceeded or failed to meet the target set forth by the program.

But the thing is they can’t just make up any old crap they like about the capabilities/ability of the aircraft. LM do not own the JSF, ANY release into the public domain would have to go through the JSF office for approval for release, this includes any content of the JSF including the much talked about Powerpoint presentations, media releases, interviews etc.

But like you have said, only time will tell, many of the true capabilities will never be public knowledge, and that goes for most things military, no matter what country it comes from. I know stuff from my Navy days for systems that have been out of service for a decade that still don’t and will never have their true specs public knowledge

Cheers

The same PR that says the F-35 equal of far exceed the Typhoon in all aspect? And the same DoD that published a report stating a top secret issue that could affect performance, which most analysts have pointed toward stealth?

@Loke: IIRC the US has already reduced its order from 3k to about 2700 or 2500.

Just curious, which “analysts” would that be ?

Still don’t understand the constant bashing of PR on this thread ? Do people believe that LM PR Department can just say and make up what they like ?

:p Not the same c**p again, please!

So, using my Iphone, I can track (not only detect, but track) a missile at 1,300 km, as EODAS did :p

x 2 🙂

I thought he brought the exact same thing up several months ago, total lack of understanding of how the system and CCD imagers work, the advantage of only letting a thread get to 20 pages, just re hash