Tom HMorning all
Might I suggest a cooling period while we wait for more facts???
I understand the passions involved and the frustrations we are all dealing with. I too would love to see a flying Mossie in my life time, but as has been well said by others, right now there are just not enough proven facts in this tale. I’m only 300km away and have little more information than those in England or Australia.
If some would like to continue to debate the cultural legislation I would be happy to do so as it has been enlightening to see the different views and ideas (for the most part), but until new factual information is forthcoming I will not speak to the specifics of this aircraft or the Calgary Museum.
The good part of the overall debate is “something” is going to happen, hopefully it is a solution that makes all happy.
Tom H
Tom HAfternoon all
To be clear…since the start of this thread I have been really specific that I won’t discuss this specific aircraft or the affairs of the Calgary Museum.
I do not have the direct facts or first had knowledge to do so, I have no idea of the specifics of their deal with the City of Calgary, nor do I want them…it’s their business.
I have spoken to the system and how it is supposed to work, period.
The right people are now involved on a direct basis to insure things will be done right, to this I am extremely pleased. It may still wind up going to the UK or elsewhere if there is no made in Canada solution. That is how the system is supposed to work and I can only hope that, as I have repeatedly said, it works out best for all concerned.
But I do have a question to our friends in the UK. I am a only a little informed on your PFA and CAA rules and understand they are much more complex than the North American ones.
There have been several references to not being able to fly a new build anything in the UK, does anyone have any idea why? Just curious.
Or would you recommend starting a new thread for this?
Thanks
Tom H
Tom HTo all…
The CT-133 is a great example of how the system is supposed to work!!!
The CT-133 is very well represented in Canada, both in Museums and at Royal Canadian Legions and some other areas.
Because of this when the military offerred the last round there were few takers and they were then offerred on the open market…most going out of the country.
But the system was followed, worked smoothly and in many cases both museums and CAPA assisted private individuals with sourcing spares and the paperwork.
We are lucky in having (2) examples, (1) awaiting repaint, (1) static restored,to be loaned to Calgary when they are ready for it.
A great example of the legislation and the system working as it is supposed to.
To the lucky purchasers….enjoy, a spectacualr aircraft with the Rolls engine and the last batch had all the electronics upgrades.
The same has been happening with the Canadair Tudor…Museums were offerred first, the system followed.
Tom H
Tom HMorning Richard
Sorry to hear things are so off track, I’m coming to think the person(s) getting the worst of it is the potential purchaser as they have now been dragged into an apparent mess.
I still hope things work out for the best for everyone, but the deeper I dig the sadder I become.
I have dicovered a number of very serious and significant offers from within Canada had been put forward since the last mess, they were apparently told the aircraft was not for sale or trade.
I have also been advised the City of Calgary has asked for help from some very prominent Canadians in getting the process back on track, good on them. It still may very well end up in the UK, but at least it will be done right.
On the aircraft mentioned on this thread, of the ones that I have been able to track facts down on…etheir went smoothly through the system or made it out by finding ways to hide from it. I understand changes are coming down that will plug many of the holes used to get around the system.
As I have mentioned before…the goal is not to stop the sale and trade, but to give Canadian organizations first chance…if there is no ‘Made in Canada” solution…then it leaves.
The legislation is not the problem…the lengths some will go to to try and beat it is…combined with ignorance of the rules in some cases.
At least my research now shows major steps are being taken to address both.
Tom H
Tom HJ Boyle
The ugly black did reduce the speed…
My father was a Lancaster pilot during WW2 (RCAF attached to RAF), after the end of hostilities there was a huge delay in getting shipped home and many make work projects took place.
One was the weighing of a Lanc painted, then speed trials/rate of climb. The aircraft was then stripped of all paint and re tested.
My father was the pilot during the tests and told me there was a several hundred pound difference in empty weight (can’t remember exactly how much) and a fairly major jump in speed and rate of climb (again can’t remember exactly how much).
Reports were made and forwarded…lord knows what ever happened to them.
Tom H
Tom HMorning Richard
Are you sure none of the steps have been followed???
Is Calgary a signatory to CAPA and the Aviation Museums of Alberta memorandum of understanding?
As I check on some of the aircraft that have been mentioned in this thread I am very dissappointed to see the lenghts that people, especially Canadian, have gone to to get around the system…it’s actually very saddening.
Tom H
Tom HThanks Washlee
Works better here if you go to the link and bring up “Global National Stories”
Thanks Tom H
Tom HMorning Bruce
As I understand the legislation aircraft deemed historic are/should be offered to Canadian Museums first…if we can’t tackle it or match the sale it goes.
That is bascially what happened to the Connie, and what is supposed to happen.
1) I think the furor over the Mossie is 1/2 and 1/2, the are apparently
problems in Calgary from Richards post.
2) The aircraft has not followed the system and everyone is getting surprised
by it.
Personally I think (just my opinion) if it had been offerred through Canada at market value and no musuem or collector went for it then there would be no issue.
I think in many cases I am being taken out of context on this….I have always taken the stand the rules are to be followed…then if we loose it, too bad.
I hated to see the Connie go, but no one here was able to get the support to keep it and it has gone to the USA. Fine at least the rules were followed.
Texantomcat
I do often feel an us vs them attitude. It’s part of trying to run a not for profit museum in my part of the world. I apologize if I became obnoxious about it but when you are constantly barraged by $$$$ at all sides it gets on your nerves.
We have missed on a number of aircraft over the years that were very historic because we couldn’t hit the target $$$. They went through the rules and we still lost them.
Our job at this museum is to present the history of our City/Region, when you constantly see your history being belittled compared to others and then have to strain to grow….while making ends meet and enticing and entertaining many thousands of people per year. I think you get the picture it is beyond frustrating.
I have never advocated we keep every aircraft…only the rules be followed.
Sorry if I came across otherwise.
For the record…our museum has assited many other museums from Australia to the USA and in between and
I agree co operation is very important and we have worked very hard with several internatioinal groups.
Parts, for the interested, are not covered under the legislation, which is how some stuff has gone under the radar over the years. We trade (not sell) excess inventory after a project has been completed…and it too has helped projects around the world
Tom H
Tom HThanks we appreciate your visits…
Ask for me the next time you are in.
Tom H
Tom HRichard
You looked good on the Global National!!!
On a more serious note, keep everyone posted as you get information. We are just as in the dark as the rest of the world.
Thanks for bringing some facts to the plate.
Tom H
Tom HBruce
I appreciate exactly what you are saying. But in some cases we do what we have to.
Our collection is split almost 50/50 Military and Civil types and it often breaks my heart to see ether put into non relavent colors. But as a volunteer I was often only 1 voice and now as a 240hr/month Executive Director I can only advise and find the ways to pay for it.
But as you say times change, the B-25 we are currently doing is step in the right direction. It would be fair I think to say it is a composite aircraft with parts coming from all over the place but is being done as a specific postwar 418 Sqn aircraft as accuratly as we can afford. But again it is a partnership with another associaton and stumbling blocks may still fall…but we are in the right direction.
Our biggest challenge is and continues to get more pressing is room, as it currently stands 2 out of 4 aircraft in restoration will have no indoor display space if we are delayed in expansion plans…that to me will be a huge shame.
But we continue to do the best we can.
Thanks
Tom H
Mark 12
You are right that is a beautiful Mossie
Thanks
Tom HThanks Peter
We may very well have met as I have been to Nanton with my father in law and daughter several times…matter of fact you featured both of them in one of your newsletters.
Nanton has done a superb job with the Lanc and others. Loved the operating rear turret my father in law made you guys put me in….no idea how he bailed out when his Lanc was shot down.
Like you we do the best we can…but we get better and better
Apprecaite the kind words…thanks again.
Tom H
Tom HThanks Mark
Appreciate the support…hope ours has helped your cause.
Tom H
Tom HScorpion 89
I have made my stand pretty clear….one system and one standard for all, follow the rules.
On the other hand your last few posts have, to me, painted a pretty clear picture of where you are coming from and your motivations.
As a result I am choosing to discontinue my conversations with you on this or any other topic.
It seems to me we are opposite ends of the spectrum.
Tom H
Tom HEddie
When the Mossie is re restored I understand the control will be in the Museums hands. The original deal still stands though.
I have your contact info etc from our last round on this and we may very well contact you in the future.
The original nose (or what remained of it) was retained, as will any other parts that will eventually need replaced.
The re restoration does not yet have a start schedule, it will be some time away as other aircraft are in progress and at least (1) 1920’s replica need built to complete the early time line of the museum.
Till then our Mossie is safe, sound, protected and enjoyed by thousands each year.
I appreciate and understand your concerns.
Tom H
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