You mean that small dome, at the starboard stern corner? Doubt that was a dummy (why a dummy?)
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Read also
http://trishul-trident.blogspot.nl/2011/11/more-naval-updates.html
Yes, thats it.
That dome was most probably removed around the days of commissioning ceremony along with the arrestor cables. But even though they put back all arresting apparatus, they did not do the same with the dome at stern. My understanding is that those two area at stern are most probably destined for the VL missiles and close-in weapons and I always found that dome there as a mismatch. So my guess is that it was not its actual place and was just residing at its temporaty location?
@ Tempest414
INS Hansa @ Goa is a proper STOBAR facility with a ramp, chokes and arrestor gear apparatus. It is a full fledged facility for STOBAR and I believe Rafale-M would be better off in India if they want to test the aircraft or train themselves.
Found this 1/700 scaled model of INS Vikramaditya.

http://militaryzoneupdate.blogspot.in/2013/06/indian-navy-ins-vikramaditya-aircraft.html
The only minus is the aircraft’s are not to scale as can be seen from the Ka-27 on the lift and from below helo config.
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After commissioning and on return voyage, the most visible item missing is the ‘duplicate’ white dome that used to be there at the stern. Its missing now and nothing underneath, so maybe it was probably a dummy stuff?

^ Tu-142 was probably the long-range air component during the Vikie home coming and probably INS Chakra was also there underneath.
I think the 46 aircraft number is highly ambitious, and while the carrier might be able to hold that many planes on deck and in the hangar simultaneously in theory, the number will probably be reduced signficantly if any practical operations are to be conducted.
That is to say, the 46 number is probably similar to the often touted 100 plane airwing for USN supercarriers even though a typical manageable airwing is more like 60-80 birds.
Its optimistic for sure.
But I hope you will not have much problem agreeing with the below figure of 24 x MiG-29K/KUB for the carrier. I think 24 aircraft is a figure we are likely going to see by the year end. 20 fighters are available right now as we speak and 8-10 more will be availebe by year end.
24 x MiG-29K/KUB
16 (on deck) – or even 12/12 (deck/hanger)
8 (hanger)
24 (flight deck recovery capacity without using hanger space)
6 x Ka-27/31
5 x Ka-27/31 (the stern helipad is vacant when no 29K is anchored at stern)
1 (in hanger)
Total – 30 aircrafts
Now the wartime capacity is mostly 50% surge from the regular (which I consider as the above) capacity. So add 12 more 29K airframes to the numbers. Helos can be deployed off other ships, so no need to increase the numbers from the 6 units.
What do you mean the Charles de Gaulle will be “handing over” their number 2 slot???
well you would have sensed the numbers I mentioned including those for Liaoning and Kuznetsov. CDG currently occupies the no 2 slot when it comes to number of fighters after Amrikhan carriers.
Yeah, that simply will not be happening. The power and capability of CDG is much higher that of INS Vikramaditya. A nuke powered, Rafale equipped carrier with E-2Cs is still very much in a different league. Thats not even taking into account the nuclear equipped missiles it most likely carries in emergencies.
Other than unlimited range from N-plant for the carrier and the potent air-defence missiles, the N-powered CDG does not have much in terms of aircrafts so to speak now. CDG top speed is limited to 25 knots and for a N-powered aircraft carrier its too slow compard to other N-powered carriers that rate for over 30knots. It also need to slow down some knots when the steam catapults are in use. Also, its the 10 x Rafale-M that are the best CDG have but in limited numbers and then probably 2-4 x E-2.
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With 20-24 x MiG-29K/KUB and 6 x Ka-31/27, INS Vikramaditya would be taking the 2nd slot in a years time. The other operational carrier which can out number Vikie to the number 2 slot is Kuznetsov when fully integrated with the 24 x MiG-29K/KUB and the residual Su-33. But that will take untill 2015 end, by which time Brits will have their new shiny QE in water but without the aircrafts in numbers.
Rafale should have enough thrust to use the ramp from the longest start point but this needs to be proved a good place to start would be RNSA Yeovilton or RAF Whittering which both have land based ramps from the Harrier days
Frenches can test Rafale for STOBAR ops in India at Shore Based Test Facility at Goa and see if it is worth for STOBAR ops with the current engines. It might also help in future development. MiG-29K/KUB are using the facility to train for STOBAR ops.

You can hardly call that replenishment at sea: she is not moving and within clear sight of land. Clearly, during her maiden trip to India, she will be taking spares and such along. That is stuff she would not normally carry. Unless perhaps e.g. on a humanitarian mission, or when used in helicopter assault role. Which would be exception rather than rule, imho.
yup. I mean replenishing the stocks for the crew as can be seen in the video. The video was mainly to give an idea on the usage of the starboard area.
Without much outing in the Arabian sea, Vikie sneaked into the Karwar naval base INS Kadamba. Probably the official ceremony meant for press will be this weekend or next week or before 26 Jan Republic Day. Or maybe there wont be any at all (for now) and the ceremony is planned for the official day of induction when the INAS 303 Black Panthers have been fully integrated with INS Vikramaditya.
The guys are not going to rest and will be busy to get first of the Black Panthers on the deck so that they can have some of them ready for deck and steam him/her off the Mumbai coast (or in Karwar itself) during Republic Day celebration.
Karwar is seat of INS Vikramaditya
DC | Amit S. Upadhye | 08th Jan 2014Bengaluru: The largest floating airfield of Indian Navy, the INS Vikramaditya docked at its home base in Karwar amidst high security and secrecy. The docking was done post sunset and the approach of the vessel was kept hidden till the last minute.
The INS Vikramaditya, which will carry the floating squadron of MIG 29K on it, is the refurbished version of Russian warship Admiral Gorshkov. The 45,000 tonne weighing vessel was escorted by another aircraft carrier of Indian Navy – INS Virat – along with the Battle Carrier Group which included Destroyers and Frigates.
The arrival of INS Vikramaditya is being considered as ‘game-changer’ for the Indian Navy and expected to enhance the maritime security in the Indian ocean.
The enhancing of maritime security became a dire need for India post 26/11 and with the arrival of INS Vikramaditya, the Indian Navy has entered a elite club of few forces in the world to have such a large aircraft carrier.
“The largest warship in our inventory has reached Karwar. The Sea Bird base has been prepared for docking of this large vessel. Now that the vessel is docked, integration with other Naval vessels and training for pilots in deck landing will begin. It will take another year for the warship to become fully operational. The ship will carry about 30 aircrafts on board comprising an assortment of MiG 29K, Kamov 31, Kamov 28, Sea King, ALH-Dhruv and Chetak helicopters,” said an official from the Indian Navy.
This is one awesome pic of a Tu-214R. Never saw aircraft at such low altitude with retracted

some more nice pics of Tu-214R
http://russianplanes.net/images/to127000/126757.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to128000/127396.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to125000/124083.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to124000/123014.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to126000/125370.jpg
Also, pics of IL-20M upgrade with new fitting on upper aft fuselage

http://russianplanes.net/images/to121000/120730.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to70000/069670.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to22000/021091.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to26000/025653.jpg
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/2/9/2063929.jpg
without those new upper fuselage sensors
http://russianplanes.net/images/to53000/052082.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to52000/051688.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to52000/051769.jpg
In the case of engine for AMCA (& also for Tejas MK2, if it can be done… as the deal for F414 have not yet been closed)… choose the Klimov route than the “free” sanction, unreliable and pocket ripping route.
True, tere is no official publicity on the development and is no where in sight but we can see case in the form of AESA radars from Russia. What we now see is that NIIR Phazatron have more than one module option for their Zhuk-AE radars and NIIP is also progressing their AESA development. Likewise, just don’t sideline this opportunity and check out the possibility of co-sharing the finance & technology as well as the risk.
This article from May 2007 says Klimov started the development of the 5th Gen engine in 2006. If funding for this 5th Gen engine was not in priority list till now (which is likely), then the recent news of LMFS will give us a hint that the Russsian Govt funding is going to come in for the project in the future.
In April last year Klimov announced that it had begun design of a new engine for the LFI next-generation lightweight fighter being developed by MiG. Although MiG has yet to define all of its requirements for the engine, Klimov has said it will be an upgrade of the RD-33 with 25,300lb thrust, vectoring nozzle and modular design.
This new engine is likely to be based on the RD-33MK (which is a new engine anyway) but with a new 5th Gen core with thrust upto 12t. If they can manage to keep the dry weight at the current 1055Kg, then even better.
Cost of new engine is hard to speculate. But one thing is clear it will be considerably cheaper than the Western engines.
INS Vikramaditya along with INS Viraat and couple of Sea Harriers checking out the Vikie. But the Black Panthers wont allow them to land…. its their ship and they would loved to be the first ones to touch down. 😀
Coincidence?
French Aircraft Carrier deploys to Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf, will train with U.S. Navy
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1407French Navy and US Navy Aircraft Carrier Groups started their Joint Deployment (in the Gulf of Oman)
http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1461
can be…
According to navyrecognition, quoting the French Navy, the airwing of Charles de Gaulle for that specific deployment are
Charles de Gaulle air wing
– 10 Rafale M
– 10 Super Etendards Modernisés
– 2 E-2C Hawkeye
– 2 Dolphin Helicopters
– 1 Alouette III Helicopters
– 2 Caracal C-SAR Helicopters
INS Vikramaditya as of now have 20 x MiG-29K/KUB at its disposal, all of which will soon be deck qualified… the French would be keenly watching as CDG will be ‘handing over’ their number 2 slot to the Vikie in a year. LiaoNing is not going to get the numbers any time soon and Kuznetsov might gets his 8-12 MiG-29K/KUB in the next 12 months with 4 already being delivered.
——————–
How do you think they arrived at the figure? :rolleyes:
What makes you think the contract value in INR stated in a MoD or Navy press release is not subject to change, as a result of a rises or falls in the prevailing exchange rate?
:rolleyes:
There’s no ambiguity here. The dollar value is constant and the rupee value depends on the exchange rate.
Did I not request you earlier to give your backside some rest and to use your head? Its your liberty which one to use, but the only problem is when you use the wrong side you tend to put the “constants” in the wrong place.
Once more and this would be the very last one. For Amrikhan, USD is the ‘constant’. For the Europeans, Euro is the ‘constant’. For the Brits, Pound is the ‘constant’. And for us poor Indians, it is the INR which is the ‘constant’!
I can understand your loyalty to the USD, but do wake me up when India starts budgeting in you favorite USD.
I have sort of updated/revised the airgroup and the capacity of INS Vikramaditya. Below are my new figures…
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^ the sketch and the model gives us an airgroup of 12 & 14 aircraft arranged in different config. From all the pics and videos available of the sea trials we can almost confirm these positions.
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^ Article related to MiG-29K/KUB in Take-Off magazine had the above pic showing the MiG-29K armed with R-73E AAMs and underbelly drop tank. But its the pic of a MiG-29K (21 August 2013) that had just landed with its ‘unused’ weapons and was being rotated to the service area on the port side which tells us that it does have anchoring points for atleast one aircraft even though the pic does not show it.
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^ this pic (finally) shows/confirmed the first sketch showing three 29Ks parked at stern. The pic only shows two aircraft, but I’m putting faith in three aircraft as illustrated in the sketch. This gives us the below airgroup.
Normal air group capacity – 16 + 3 = 19
MiG-29K/KUB
3 (bow)
1 (aside island)
8 (aft of island)
3 (stern)
1 (portside)
Ka-27/31 – 3
Flight deck recovery capacity – upto 24 + 4 = 28
MiG-29K/KUB
12 (bow)
8 (aft of island)
1 (aside island)
1 (portside)
1 (stern – the last trapped K/KUB)
1 (elevator #1 aside island)
Ka-27/31 – 4
Read the below figures as wartime capacity or wartime surge from the normal capacity when the carrier is deployed to its designated operational area. This surge can be in support of strike ops where more airframes might be useful. Such a situation may not necessarily involve storing the aircraft safe inside the hanger (as in long transit) and are likely to be parked on the deck itself. The main obstruction will be the deck management and fine tuning the aircraft rotation. But its not impossible and we are likely to see a positive result by next Navy day when the Navy will have nearly 28 x 29K/KUB to test the deck.
Total fixed wing aircrafts carried/accomodated
upto 24 (on deck after recovery) + upto 12 (inside hanger or already took to air) = upto 36 x MiG-29K/KUB
Total rotary winged aircraft carried/accomodated
4 (recovered) + 6 (inside hanger or in air)
Cumulative capacity of aircraft that can be serviced/operated by the carrier.
upto 36 x MiG-29K/KUB + 10 x Ka-27/Ka-31 = 46 aircrafts
24 x MiG-29K/KUB will be a definite capacity that we are going to see in the near future in the form of two squadrons – INAS 303 Black Panthers and INAS 300 White Tigers (or other name if they raise a new one). INS Vikrant will be having similar capacity and IN will be operating 4 squadron worth of aircraft from its carrier deck by 2018-2019.
INS Vikramaditya replenishment (small scale) at sea. It will give an idea of what the starboard area will mainly be used for.
PLAN thread without any good pic of LiaoNing group is boring. The pictures of the outing was awesome.

CG showing how it will look with its airgroup. It looks good, but m view is that their chose of a larger aircraft based on Su-33 was a bad decision. The perfect size was the MiG-29K class.

Indian Navy have really given a New Year treat with those photos. Simply awesome! 😎
Shiv Aroor havn’t forgotten to post the IN promo material either.
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2014/01/photo-ins-vikramaditya-enters-arabian.html
This is the largest reception that any ship in Indian Navy have got till date, which was borne out of necessity in addition to the primary factor of what INS Vikramaditya means to Indian Navy and that in a year or two will be taking over as the flag ship. I believe two other factors that made Indian Navy to send a task force to recieve INS Vikramaditya are
1) lack of own (Vikie) fighter units and air-defence systems 2) incidents of P-3 buzzing the carrier and chances of unwanted aircrafts straying too close to Vikie was more than likely.
It was also a good relief of an incident free transit through the transit. Two pics of Vikie transiting Suez from Russi forum. Its not as good as the wonderful pics of French groups recent transit photos… Probably more may come out in due time. But for now only two.


I see..you want me to frozen… 😀
Btw, Merry X’Mas to all of You.
Videos of air shows do not allow an observer to determine the power to weight ratio of the engines powering the aircraft in the video.
All the pilots and experts who get to have a feel of other aircraft’s performance by watching its airshow displays must be dumbar$es?
None of the other rubbish in your post bothers me and all along since you first quoted me (even after I stopped quoting you), I was specifically looking if you will clearly reply to this one – Value of INS Vikramaditya in 2013. That was/is the only point of interest to me in your reply.
And the Indian Navy reported a cost in INR because the release was to the Indian media.
How did the Indian Navy arrive at the figure in Indian Rupees. Mr.Expert? What is/was the magic formula?
The UK MoD too releases costs in GBP to the domestic media, even for import/export deals signed in USD.
How do the UK Mod release cost in GBP even if the deals are signed in USD? How do they arrive at a figure in GBP. Mr.Expert? What is/was the magic formula?
Do you atleast now get a sense of what you were typing? Do you still believe your reply had any relation to the value of Vikramaditya 2010 and 2013?
INS Vikramaditya total cost in 2010 @ $2.3billion – $2.35billion
(equivalent value in USD for the specified year given below)2010 @ Rs.45/USD – Rs.10,350 crore – Rs.10,575 crore (a constant figure***)
2013 @ Rs.62/USD – $1.669 billion – $1.706 billion (converting the above constant to 2013 value)
Unless the agreement with Russia was negotiated in and paid for in ‘Rupees’, domestic exchange rate fluctuation doesn’t the change the dollar value of the acquisition. A depreciating currency doesn’t make imports cheaper.
The above quote and value is the only thing of interest to me, because you went on to claim that the value of Vikramaditya provided is wrong and it should be $2.3billion in 2013 as well. You have not yet given a clear reply and goes around typing something else skipping this specific one and the reason why I replied to swerve
I did not bother replying to Mr.Expert not because he was right, but coz its a wastage of time and space. He would have wonderful answers on why Indian Navy press release mention a value of Rs.4,881.67 crore when all we know from the news reports all these years is a contract value of nearly $1.5billion in 2004.