JangBoGohaavarla,
Plz give the link to the last page of previous thread in your first post. TIA
Nice. With 60 target detection capability Phazotron has matched the Elta EL/M-2052’s 64 targets. And to think MiG originally thought about approaching the Israelis because they thought Russian radar makers couldn’t develop an AESA!
MiG never though of going to Israel for the radar. It was media & Isreali’s who promoted the 2052 with MiG.
btw, do you got any photo of the working unit of 2052 on a test-bed?
It’s not a new radar though. And with the ongoing development of the 1000 t/r module Zhuk AESA since it was first shown. We’d likely see a lot more potent specs then the previosly reported once.
The article mentions a probability for the IAF upgrade also. It would be a good addition if the remaining MiG-29K to arrive is fitted with these units… but unlikely, as no mention of it till now…
Regarding AESA for MiG-29 …testing of the full-scale 1000TRMs version of ZhuK-A was suposed to start this summer.;)
On another note , so should it be understood that from what can be seen so far Su-30SM won’t have the OEIS system installed?
Any pic or illustration of the unit would be good. The size of antenna & antenna could be different and if I’m not wrong it was reported that in the final production variant, the antenna would be further back…
JangBoGoMaybe next year we might see the first of these 1000 t/r module Zhuk-A on a MiG-29..??
http://vpk-news.ru/news/2552/
MiG-29 will receive the new AESA radar
Russian company “Fazotron-NIIR” was tasked to develop a prototype radar with active phased array antenna for the MiG-29, the agency said Jane’s.
The new radar will be created based on the radar “Zhuk-A” being developed for future fighter MiG-35. Radar for the MiG-29, according to the source agency, will be 30 percent larger than the working prototype of “Bug-A” is installed on the MiG-35, which took part in the Indian tender MMRCA. Improved version of the radar for the MiG-29 (expected to be installed and the serial MiG-35) will get a thousand transceiver modules. The new radar can detect up to 60 targets at a range of 200 kilometers. Working prototype of the radar will be installed on the MiG-29M2-9.15, owned RAC “MiG” and is used to test various aircraft equipment. Time needed to create the radar as yet unknown. New radar could be included in the program of the Russian Air Force modernization of the existing MiG-29. Meanwhile, as the Jane’s, the second version of the customer development “Bug-A” for the MiG-29 could be the Indian Air Force, who previously spent upgrading 62 such aircraft (54 single and eight double).
Tu-95MS will update
The Russian Defense Ministry in 2013 will upgrade strategic bombers Tu-95MS to version Tu-95MSM.
Upgraded aircraft will last until 2020-2025 period, after which will be replaced by a new bomber, the development of which is under way in the framework of the program for the long-range aircraft aviation complex (PAK DA). In the course of the modernization program for the Tu-95MS will be replaced only electronic equipment, while the airframe and engine modifications, will not be. As expected, the Bombers set a new sighting and navigation system, which will use the new strategic cruise missiles X-101. In addition, the Tu-95MS will put navigation system based on GLONASS. Remaining amount of the long-range bombers – about 30-40 years. Nearly a hundred of Tu-95MS will undergo modernization dozens, and the rest will fall under cancellation. Participate in the program will be updated bombers Moscow Institute of Electromechanics and Automation, and the Central Research Institute of Radio Engineering Berg. Meanwhile modernized Tu-95MSM likely last longer scheduled for ten years. The fact that the project PAK DA is only in the initial stages of development and the creation and testing of the aircraft require 20-25 years. In this case, entered service, PAK DA will not immediately replace all Tu-95MSM, this process will be completed in just five – seven years. Tu-95 entered service in 1956. The aircraft is capable of speeds up to 830 kilometers per hour and fly at a distance of 10.5 thousand kilometers. Warload Tu-95MS is about 20 tons. As a part of the Russian Air Force long-range aircraft currently including 32 combat-capable Tu-95MS, nearly 60 cars in storage.
JangBoGoAFAIK that cycle refers to the number of significant engine RPM changes.
I didn’t get it, can you plz explain it …
It is mentioned as the maintenance intervals… so can you explain that figure by connecting it to the engine operations..
JangBoGoNes on Il-476 first flight:
It mentioned max load of 52tons to 5000km.
Isn’t the maximum load 60tons?
JangBoGoKB,
Except for the P-8s, every other military aircraft flying with a mid-air refueling capability in Indian service use Probe-and-drogue system.
Probably IN do not see the need for mid-air refueling for the P-8s and neither is US interested in giving that capablity to IN and the reason why they kept the boom type…? Even the upgraded IL-38s do not have refueling probes.
JangBoGoDo you really think the Fars news agency is a credible source? 😮
I fear for your mental health if you do. Do you also believe those old North Korean official news releases claiming that Kim Il Sung was responsible for good weather, or that birds fell silent when he died?
Fars is a propaganda agency with a sideline in news. It says what suits those in power in Iran.
what would be a good source for you?
And what about the freedom of speech and expression preached by your Govt, the result of which we are seeing on the streets.. :rolleyes:
Btw, the North Korean fairy tale looks very creative compared to official advise to citizen to wear lighter clothing and hide under newspaper etc to protect themselves from mushroom clouds…
JangBoGoI see zero Rafale deliveries from HAL before 2016. The current MiG-21 numbers are close to 150.
If we need any valuable amount of Rafale, the number of units from France needs to be increased. There is no chance of HAL making any significant numbers before 2020. There would be a cost increase for sure, but if we need numbers, we need to increase direct import from Dassault.
JangBoGoThe fact that a Russian official should know what should be secretive information, i.e. the state of the discussions between the MoD and French officials goes to show how deeply entrenched they are in the inner circles of the MoD and even the services.
We’ll see how true his assertions are, hopefully by the end of the year.
….and if someone in the future say that ISRO might import more cryogenic engines from Russia in the future, it must also be due to that super Russian spy residing in the establishment, rather than on the public information that ISRO’sown cryogenic engine is still not yet ready and the Russian units imported have almost finished.
Supposedly commanded? He commanded 4 Horse, formerly Hodson’s Horse, retired in 2001, after being commissioned in 1979. So yes, he did command a T-72 and FYI, most tank commanders would be hard pressed to tell the differences between T-72 variants unlike the legions of fans on the net, who have a lot of time to spend doing this stuff. In real life, the average commander only cares about knowing the basics of what he is facing – how it looks, how it fights/moves (weaknesses, strengths, logistics). The data is given to them by MilIntel and analysts but cannot be parsed beyond a point. For instance, will a Pakistani tank commander distinguish between a first series T-90 received by India, or the second batch with a welded turret, or a third one with Indian armour components? He is unlikely to be able to make out the difference beyond a point, and nor will he care, they are all T-90s.
I didn’t know you were such a big fan of Ajai…
But we are not even talking about the incident between a T-72 variants or a T-72 or T-90, but his blog entry in which he screamed with headlines Syrian T-72 being destroyed. He have time and again displayed in the past many years his severe dislike for the Russian tanks and that blog entry was to carry forward his promotion of that view, which unfortunately for him misfired after posters called it bluff and showed him it was not a Syrian T-72, but a Centurion….. he then edited and changed his blog accordingly…
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2011/11/video-of-purported-israeli-hit-on.html
As for Ajai Shukla, this is the best thing that perfectly fit & describe Ajai for what he is now, as described by another person….
my opinion on Shuklaji, (just my 2 cents)
hope he can answer!!
– How did he command a troop/ a squadron in his regt. he lived with people who were ready to go with him in a fight to death with the same tincans he today is doing propaganda against. What did he tell his troops in a darbar ? how will he lead them and bring them back in tincans? Was he a officer material or he just passed his time in IA and was one of the lucky ones to pass through the system? As an officer did he do his duty to understand, learn and use his equipment provided for in the best of the way it could be used or he just went through the motions and enjoyed his stay in IA and as a opportunist as he is left IA at the first pretext?…..?
like you may not change your opinions on him, don’t expect me to change my opinion on him..
and strange you even have time to customise even my screenname, what was your motive I wonder..
On the contrary, you couldn’t be more wrong. Clearly, you haven’t followed the Arjun program. The import content in Arjun is well documented and known for eons, thanks to multiple audits, CVRDE depositions and media reports. And that CVRDE has been working with severe limitations thanks to the fact that the Army puts piecemeal orders for limited numbers of tanks, which makes indigenization beyond the 40% by value level challenging (in LRUs, the Arjun has more than 50% local, but in value, the high cost of the power pack – engine, transmission, plus the GMS, GCS takes up the disproportionate amount).
I couldn’t find details of CVRDE with details like what ADA showed for Tejas, maybe I missied. But since you have followed it, can you post the details/document in which CVRDE have put forward details on all systems they still need to make in house/indigenous for the Arjun tank.
well..about indigenous stuff on Arjun, the only thing indegenious that can never be challenged is the name ARJUN! Everything else will fall in the category of either direct import, locally made with ToT, locally made w/o ToT (reverse engineer), locally produced under license and indigenous development based on others. Btw, I do not wish to continue the tanks in this forum, so if you can provide the official list put forward by CVRDE of components/systems that need to be indigenousied, it would be helpful. TIA.
ADA is able to launch an indigenization drive because they have 40 confirmed orders apart from the prototypes, and a follow on series production of 100 aircraft plus for the MK2 (83 minimum for the AF, and around 2 squadrons for the Navy). Plus AF needs may ensure numbers may rise. Given the depth of support from HAL, BEL, plus the programs already underway for similar series upgrades in the IAF, the volumes for the LCA stack up. This is not the case for the Arjun, which has unique LRUs.
Arjun have been in a much better position and army have been more generous and accommodating than the Airforce with atleast 124 Arjun Mk1. In contract IAF ordered just 40 LCA MK1…
JangBoGoWell, he was scoffed at when he talked about the IL-76’s poor serviceability, but turned out that at least on that aspect, he was right on the money.
“We have finished all evaluations and selected the A330 MRTT. The deal will come up for final approval by the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) very soon. The Russian platform did not meet certain requirements,” Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major said in an interview with the Hindustan Times published on Monday.
Major said India was not satisfied with the level of after-sales service provided by Russia.
“After the disintegration of the Soviet Union, Russia has changed the whole pattern of doing defense business. Now we are faced with issues concerning spares, vendor support and built-in delays in the structure of their centralized military corporations,” he said.
India rejects Russian aerial tankers over poor maintenance – RIA Novosti
Serviceability of IL-76s, which perform crucial strategic air-lift work for IAF, has been quite a problem.
IAF has been facing the problem of serviceability of the IL-76s. Availability of spares for the four-engine IL-76 s has also been a major issue after the Soviet Union broke up.
The IAF’s two IL-76 squadrons and five AN-32 squadrons have been besieged with poor serviceability record of less than 50 per cent, meaning the fleet was available to the Air Force for less than half their intended utilisation and a huge shortfall in their assigned tasks and performance, mainly due to non-availability of spares and inadequate maintenance.
As for the specific instance, IL-76s have certainly landed in Leh numerous times before, but often enough the conditions, especially in summertime, can require a mission to be aborted while staying within the safety margin.
Manu Pubby of the Indian Express tweeted the same –
At the Leh airbase, IL 76 could not bring any load in June 2010. C 17 brought 30 tons.
I was asking about the whole picture of that incident of IL-76s with no load on the day mentioned …. and the basic question is that IF IL-76 for the past 20+ years have been visiting Leh with ZERO payloads during summer…
The original wording of Shukla was this, in which he was making up his own concludions… that is where I raised a genuine question. http://ajaishukla.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/boeings-uncertainties-create-c-17.html
The C-17 will replace the obsolescent Russian IL-76 airlifter, which has served the IAF since the early 1980s but is now unreliable. The IAF is impressed with the C-17’s abilities, especially after 20th June 2010. During trials in Ladakh, in the oxygen-thin air of that hot summer day, the IL-76 was unable to land even without a payload. The C-17, to the IAF’s delight, landed and took off with 30 tonnes on board.
Some quotes from the article below. And since Shukla have been in forefront of plant visits etc, his extremely passionate writings has to be expected…
The FMS deal with US surely will have benifited many lobby groups.,, but what is interesting is the numbers ordered for C-17 & P-8
The IAF’s Rs 22,800 crore ($4.12 billion) purchase of ten C-17s will make it the largest operator of C-17s outside the US. The aircraft will allow the army to swiftly reinforce threatened sectors along the remote, Himalayan, northern border. It can fly 74 tonnes of stores over 4,500 kilometres, landing on a one-kilometre-long stretch of hard, unpaved mud.
For Rohrabacher, the big issue here is local employment, not Pakistan. The C-17 production line, which creates some 5000 jobs at Long Beach (and another 17,000 elsewhere in the US), will shut down by end-2014 after building India’s ten C-17s and the US Air Force’s last seven aircraft.
This has forced a deadline on the IAF, which plans to order at least six more C-17s, but only after evaluating its operational performance when it joins the IAF fleet next June.
For the much needed AWACS (& ariel refuellers), we order just 3 as initial batch and then another 3 after wasting so many years…where as in the case of C17, we order 10 aircraft @ $400 million/unit initially and plans to order 6 more “after evaluating its operational performance” with the 10 aircrafts ordered. This is the exact oppsite of what is happeing/happened with Talwar/P17/P15/LCA and others.
The lobbist in India do not have any problem with saving jobs in US and transferring multi-billions dollars to the US, because that is what they are meant to do. But when it comes to much cheaper things from Russia (there by considerably saving on the amount of Indian money going out), these lobbyist in a matter of time change over to their ready-to-wear fake patriotic skin and talk about the need for Indigenous development & the need to retain Indian tax-payers money in India.
A novelty in India’s C-17 purchase is a “performance based logistics” contract that the IAF has signed with Boeing. This binds Boeing to ensure that some 85% of the C-17 fleet is always available and ready for operations. Boeing will position spares and maintenance personnel for this, drawing not just on depots in the US, but on a “virtual fleet” that includes the six other forces that operate the C-17.
This is going to make SeaKing affair almost nothing… so to make use of C17 successfully and to have a successful spares availablity, a good relation and parroting the American Govt line is mandatory…. else there is going to be mysterious drop in availability for the C17..
He writes garbage for what he does not like and he has shown it earlier like this one for T-72 upgrade and on the recent problems during sea trials. When it comes to writing on stuffs he dislikes, he is an outright dishonest scum like what we see below with his manipulated figure.. according to this genious, the already sunken cost of Rs.9 crore is a recurring cost. I wonder how he might calculate the cost we are shelling out for MKI, 29UPG & m2k5.. :rolleyes:
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2010/02/rather-than-buying-more-arjun-tanks.html
The Rs 5 crore cost of upgrading each T-72 knocks out the argument that the T-72 — at Rs 9 crores apiece — is value-for-money. Retrofitting upgraded systems will escalate the cost of the T-72 to Rs 14 crores. In contrast, a brand new Arjun, with a 1500 horsepower engine, state-of-the-art integrated electronics, and the indigenous, widely praised Kanchan armour, can be had for a marginally more expensive Rs 16.8 crores.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2012/09/gorshkov-curse-continues-russian.html
two days after the reports came online he writes his blog and in there he mentions 7 units failure and shows his dishonesty by absolutely no mention of three units as reported by all other media…
JangBoGoEven now it is in both India’s and Russia’s interest for the deal to go through. The reality is it is still the quickest way for India to procure this type of carrier and they can afford it the $3.2 billion is very little to the Indian economy which as a BRIC country can access finance very easily. Russia needs the manufacturing base to help its economy so even if the Government has to cover the costs and the whole deal loses them some money it will be worth it in terms of wider economic growth and future opportunities.
So from an economic and military perspective apart from that the whole programme has been a farce it still makes sense to complete it. The only thing which could stop it is politics if someone decides they have to take a particular stance for whatever political reason.
It may or may not be in both parties interest. But what we do know is that a full refund with interest is good for IN to invest in new platforms as much that amount is nothing big for Russia to part with. Last time when the delay was mentioned, there was so much shouting and finger pointing, even by then Navy Chief (F-18 promoter during MMRCA), who pulled out some serious words. When things started to go over the line through the media, Russia offered to take back the ship, which finally ended the politics played by our Yankee Admiral.
That same thing will be repeated this time if the media continue to assault and Govt of India & Indian Navy fail to come up with an explanation. But this time, if we get to that level —- its actually Good News for both India & Russia. As India can claim a full refund with interest and use that amount for new carrier and the benefit for Russia would be a completely upgraded carrier.
If Indian Navy can enhance its sea control & strike capability from the seas with the carrier, Russian Navy too would be gaining the same capability with the same carrier. So its a great deal for Russia. All signs point out that such an opportunity is soon to knock the Russian doors once again, once we get to know about the full scope of work on the carrier. Only a complete idiot in Russia would let go off that carrier in such a situation. It would be a good addition to the Russian Naval fleet now and neither the ship nor the yard will have to receive the bad mouthing from the media.
India Navy can definitely do without that carrier. In addition the crew & personnel in Navy who supported INS Vikramaditya & find value in its capability will be spared of mud-slinging & other form of personal attacks from the media for the next 30 years, the time for which the carrier is likely to be operated by Indian Navy once commissioned.
So by taking back the carrier, Russia will not just be augmenting its own naval capability, but she will also be indirectly helping the Indian Navy personnel who found value with the carrier from getting targeted by the media and the opposing group.
It is almost amusing that the ship itself appears to be trying to reprieve the Indian Navy from its seemingly inescapable burden!.
Yes and Indian Navy should utilize this opportunity to make a clear cut decision if they feel the ship is going to be a burden and let it go.
The irony is also nearly unbelievable that the principle justification for carrying through with this deal is exactly the same as it was 10 years ago….that there is ‘no other option’.
10 years ago there might not have been an option, but now there is in the form of CVF, PA2 or even the IAC-I. With the refund, IN can either try buying the 2nd ship of CVF class or invest that money into building another 1-2 units of Project-71 in Cochin Shipyard Limited. If CSL can start the 2nd ship next year itself, they will be able to float out the ship in 3-4 years and Indian Navy can commission the two ships in quick succession. i.e in 2018, first of the IAC-I will be in service and in 2018-2019, the second unit can also enter service.
But would any other navy be interested in buying the Gorky off the Injuns?
Russia!
If Indian Navy can enhance its sea control and strike capability from the seas, Russian Navy too can derive the same capability from Gorshkov. It can also help the SSBN deployment in the pacific or atlantic from the current bastion basing, by giving them a helping hand…
JangBoGoI somehow doubt we’ll get the full $3.2 billion back. I don’t think there’s any clause in the contract for returning the entire ship once complete.
Even if possible, the Indian Navy wouldn’t do it because it has no choice. Like it or not, we are stuck with a bad deal. We need the carrier, whatever the condition it’s in.
well, that $3.2 billion is a loose speculative figure just to give an idea. There need not be a clause, it can be arranged with mutual consultation. But such a refund can only happen only & only if Russia demands the ship back OR if Indian Navy demands it to be taken back. At the same time, such a cancellation will also not move forward, if Indian Navy is not ready to part with the carrier it have waited for so many years.
There is nothing like a bad deal in this case. The ship is not yet in service and still under Russian flag. Indian Navy need not have to go ahead if it feels it is a bad deal and Indian Govt will whole-heartedly support that decision. They have got the time to cancel it. No one is forcing the Navy to induct the ship. There is only two clear cut outcome in this deal, not even a middle ground as unlike the past, Navy have the ability to get the funds it need and Govt the mindset to provide the required funds.
So if it is a…
Bad Deal – Indian Navy cancel the deal & gets the refund!
Good Deal – Indian Navy goes ahead and inducts the ship!
Lol, russia does not give refunds.
What we should do is abandon the deal. Stop all payments immediately, take back all indian equipment and forget about the money spent and the ship.
Bare the loss and get over it. Let the russians keep the ship.
why bare the loss??
If a deal is to be ended, there definetely will be a refund.
I feel that people are over-reacting to what is a manageable issue. Solve the insulation problems, repair the boilers or fit new ones and all of this needs to be managed by the shipyard and its suppliers without dragging the customer into the muck with claims that the warranty had expired BEFORE the boilers were even fit into the ship. If they try to extract more money out of the IN, then it may well end up being the last straw. And put in clauses that ensure that such problems don’t become recurring ones for the INS Vikramaditya, else she’ll end up being a dock queen rather, spending more time in refits than on sea.
Agree on the over-reaction, but things have already shown signs of where it is headed, atleast with the media guys. From the said time for repairs, it looks there will be penalty for sure. But that is not going to end the media from future sensational news after it is inducted.
From the IN’s perspective, the MiG-29K/KUB has probably been the silver lining in the cloud. The first squadron has been established and they’ve already gone past 1000 hours of flying operations since then. It gives them a naval fighter that is many times more capable than the Sea Harrier and at a fairly decent price as compared to the only other real option they had- the Rafale M.
Rafale-M never presented itself as a real option, neither in terms of its readiness as a multi-role platform or in terms of space utilisation on the deck & inside the hanger. The first of the operational multi-role Rafale-M came out only in 2005-2006, where as MiG-29K were multirole since more than 15years before Rafale-M. Without folding wings, at 10.8m wingspan, the Rafale-M would have took more space than MiG-29K with 7.8m wingspan folded. In addition to that, the STOBAR capablity of Rafale-M with different payloads is yet to be seen or heard from Dassault.
The only other option was Su-33 and as you know, it was rejected due to its size. Even for Kuznetsov class,its large. For best utilisation of the Su-33 class of fighter, probably a Nimitz class carrier is requird.
As for suggestions of going for Varyag instead, remember it was an incomplete hulk sitting in an Ukrainian shipyard. She was not for sale to be completed as a warship and many considered her beyond economic completion. That China was prepared to fudge the whole end use issue (and still do) and actually complete her is amazing. Then again they appear to have gutted much of the hull and I doubt we will ever know how much money they burnt to complete the ship. It appears to be a money no object project for the China navy and Dalian had the advantage over Sevmash of suitable dry dock facilities and gantry cranes.
China have had their set of problems during trials which we can see from the trials they conducted. They have been sorting it out after every outing. In the case of Vik, the problems encountered were to be sorted out after the completion of 124 day sea trial. But problems with boilers came in and so we are in for a major delay.
JangBoGomaintenance intervals increased -from TAC of 2500 cycles to 4000
That cycle refers to ignition on & off and not the flight hours?
How many times will such maintenance need to be performed during the whole life of M88?
JangBoGo-Improper cost evaluation on the Indian side in the case of the Scorpene deal(The french suddenly slashed costs by a considerable amount to get the Indian MoD to approve the deal, if only the babus had seen whether the low prices were viable we wouldn’t have to suffer subsequent re-inflations of cost)
That is what many have accused Dassault off in the MMRCA deal, including Eurofighter consortium… putting forward an unrealistic low price which they wont be able to meet..
-Inadequacy of Indian infrastructure for the ADS and the Scorpene TOT.
I disagree on the IAC-I if you meant CSL by infrastructure inadequacy. CSL have done a great job. CSL & MDL are on the two of efficiency when it comes to DPSUs in India. Still, no one is kicked out in India and gets paid for their inefficiency.
Scorpene, less said the better. The real performance difference between Scorpene and Amur is with the Scorpene AIP. The base line Scorpene instead have lower figures than Amur-1650.
Western suppliers are overall pretty reliable for single-vendor deals. The C-130s, C-17s and P-8s are all going to be delivered on or in advance of schedule.
Yanks are speeding it up mainly coz, they don’t want that much needed billions getting caught up in scandal or the contract getting cancelled when political situation change.
And all the deals you mentioned are on US terms. Wait and watch in the future how they will be inspected by the Yanks. Also, with P-8s IN did not even have the voice to oppose the US standard refueling unit. Which mean, if IN needs to have the aircraft to be refueled, they will need to buy American…
JangBoGo^^^ Yup.
Do you got that earlier representation where the VLS was shown with all length of different missile?
JangBoGo^^ well we can call it that way….
Btw, RosoboronExport is promoting the Pr.21300 submarine rescue ship to Indian Navy and I feel it would be a good investment.
Sometimes, the acquisition is with crappy attitude….In the case of P-8, it was hurried up without any tender as if it was the sole component missing in the Indian Navy arsenal.. :rolleyes:
Earlier we saw a single vendor deal for Scorpene as a fast pace acquisition to built up the force. But the result now is neither is the sub available and the cost is obscene for a basic SSK. An AIP addition to the Scorpene would make acquiring N-subs directly from Russia cheaper!
Vikie is now delayed by 5-7 months
IAC-I will arrive only in 2018 and….
First of the P-17A can only be dreamt off after 2017..
Sign In
