T-129 Atak P6 First Flight – Full Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05vTjtSfNqQ&feature=player_embedded

Source: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?34507-Turkish-Armed-Forces-New-posters-read-first-post&p=5859019&viewfull=1#post5859019

Good start for the Turks!
India’s LCH have similarity with this Turkish attack helo like the over sized glass (which I don;t like anyway ;))…

Bits of that account sound like high-grade hokum. Modern encryption techniques use a random or pseudorandom keystream. Observing the signal pattern today will not help you to decrypt the signal tomorrow.

…whatever it is, Iranians have managed to capture a high valued US drone without much damage. The recent statement of President Obama on having send message asking for its return confirms beyond any doubt that the authenticity of Iranian claims w.r.t the drone displayed and that they brought it down with minimal damage.

Maybe in the future we’ll be able to see or get confirmation on how the Iranians hijacked it. And thanks for your valued inputs.

Obama calls on Iran to give back downed U.S. drone

It looks like the recent comments on Iranain media that they are in the final satges of recovering data from the drone is what prompted the US to hurriedly own uo their plane and to ask for its immediate return.

Iranian experts are in the final stages of recovering data from the U.S. surveillance drone captured by the country’s armed forces, state TV reported Monday.

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-says-almo…113942602.html

If the drone or its sensitive systems have been destroyed they would not have even bothered with asking for its return shamelessly.

Any thoughts on what could be a fair price for its return??
I think….. RQ-170s unit price + 500% shipping charge + 10days of high security bill would be a fair deal for return.

Btw, this is the best comment I found on the site that orko_8 posted…

I think this is how Obama’s conversation went with the Iranians….Hello Iran, how are you today? Yes, we were spying on you, but since you caught us, can we have our drone back and let’s start the game over again? Thank you Iran.

No, no, You see it’s for a good cause, so they can use it again over Iran 😮

well, I don’t think they are going to use them or that kind of a/c in mission with Iran any time soon and will now also be worried about the other drones that is operating in Afghanistan.

Now what we need to watch out next is a similar drone crash/hijack in N.Korea. U.S have deployed something of that sort in S.Korea to tickle the N.Korean ar$e… And its high possibility that CIA have deployed something of that sort in S.Korea also.

Another fallout of this thing will be any immediate/near plans (if at all there was any) to strike Iran would be delayed by few months, so that they can verify if their a/c are not open to hijacking from the ground…. neither U.S nor Isreal would like to see their a/c with pilots landing safely inside Iran without able to use the weapons and making prime-time TV appearance 😀

btw, what could be the unit price of this RQ-170

I doubt VLS alone would sway the Indian Navy, and I doubt it’d be such a problem when DCN has promised the ability to integrate the BrahMos with Scorpene(presuably using larger-diameter torpedo tubes)

Sub based VL missile like brahmos is an enhancement to the strike capability of the platform without eating into the primary weapons load.

And how feasible is DCN’s offer of torpedo launch for brahmos kind of missile? They will probably need a 800mm+ torpedo tubes to launch the brahmos. Even if the Brahmos is integrated successfully by TT, the overall weapons inventory will remain the same. Where as through VLS module Amur will be adding additional 8 x missiles to the inventory.

and the Germans themselves have previously offered VLS in a proposed Type 214 follow-on.

http://www.9abc.net/index.php/archives/68059

Thanks for that link. Looks prety good sub. But its a new sub and not a “modification” of the Type-214 as the below spec show. And we do see that the Germans are finally doing a “Kilo” of there own. 😉

216 conventional submarines using double-shell design, full load displacement of about 4,000 tons, the hull length 89 m, maximum diameter of 8.1 meters.

Type-216 is quoted as a double-hulled submarine (or may be its a translation error?) with an outer hull diameter of 8.1m and a displacement of 4,000t max. From my immediate memory, let me highlight some figures for the subs..

Scorpene
– External hull diameter = 7.1m (divided into 1-living deck/2 deck)
Type-214
– Internal hull diameter = 6.2m (divided into 1-living deck/2 deck)
Type-212
– Internal hull diameter = 6.2+m (only 2 section) (divided into 1-living deck/2 deck)
Amr-950
– Internal hull diameter = 5.65m (divided into 1-living deck/2 deck)
Amur-1650
– Internal hull diameter = 7.1m (divided into 2-living deck/3 deck)
Kilo 877/636
– External hull diameter = ~9.9m
– Internal is almost the size of Lada class or a bit larger = around 7.2+m (divided into 2-living deck/3 deck)

So in external dimension, the Type-216 is closer to the Amur-1650 with around ~8.1m hull diameter. And it is likely to face the same situation of a hump if the ~9-10m high VLS of Brahmos is installed.

Btw, the VLS for the Type-216 is a 2.5m but shorter than the Brahmos VLS. The 2.5m VLS reminds me of making it a non-nuclear SLBM carrier. Other specs are impressive but little difficult to understand as it is a translated Russian article. But it looks like they are mentioning 80days of endurance.

Also, this is the Aussies doing what India did earlier in 98….. we tested the N-Bomb citing China. And I, sure….this Type-216 or anything new for the Aussie’s submarine fleet are meant for Indian Ocean and not for the Pacific or the Chinese… :p

From wiki, the height of V-22 at the tail fin is 5.5 meter. The AEW version is taller than the normal version. If the AEW variant is not within the 7m hanger height of INS Vikramaditya, it wouldn’t fit inside the hanger and would need to be based outside on the deck.

My personal view of naval AEW is that of the Ka-31 type with 360degree coverage. ….but not with the current setup. But that based on 4 panels – 2 panels attached on the side fuselage. One panel on the nose and then one at the aft fuselage so that 360 degree can be covered. Even if the panels on nose & aft fuselage is not there itz ok!

On a second look, the AEW radar on the V-22 looks about the same height or lower than the tail fin. If that is the case, the height of the AEW version will not be more than 5.5m and there will be a 1.5m clearance from the hanger roof.

They should start using Brahmos for their artworks.

The artowrk shows what the P-8I will be carrying… no chance for even the much longer ranged Uran or Klub missiles.

From what I gather all Russian AIP systems(till date there have been three separate research programs: the Krystall-27, the one mentioned above and a MESMA analogue) are still in the R & D stage and no scaled up model has been built for testing on a submarine yet.

The Russian AIP is not limited to research programme. They had the Kristal AIP in their Piranah class of small sub and the AIP was cleared for service, but the years ahead filled with crisis put any more progress in production of the AIP throughout the 90s. Calling the AIP developed/development in Russia as just R&D stage is going few steps backward. It would be better to call them as testbed & prototype…

Moreover in Russia the Fuel-cell/Electro chemical generator technology have been in use for space travel and space station for far more years than the operational years of Gotland or U212 equipped with AIP. Energia corporation and other agencies have had their share in the development of the Kristal AIP project. If we take this space technology into account, Europe probably have no experience with fuel-cell and the submarine fuel-cell was their first real experience in which they managed to move forward due financial backing and risk-sharing approach. Russia did not have none of these luxuries.

And then there is the civilian variant that made use of the experience that Russia had in fuel-cells. It was in the form of Lada Niva concept vehicle. (pictures attached below). They displayed a fuel-cell vehicle prototype back in 2001. Considering the financial condition of industries in the 90s, one can safely say that the project started pretty early and was held up due to financial difficulties. Probably they had this project right in the early 90s or even late 80s. Because to bring up a fully running demo vehicle with fuel-cell technology would have taken atleast 5years of R&D. But the project has went no where due to financial constraints and other problems related to lack of direction etc etc.

Taking all the above fuel-cell cases, what we can see is a common factor…i.e the Space corporation and the technology developed by the Russian space industries for the space programme. In short what I wanted to say is that Russia is not short of fuel-cell technology, rather they have more experience with fuel-cell technology than what people think. The only lagging thing is finance and proper direction for production and commercializing their product independently. The alternative is a partner/partners for risk-sharing like what we saw with the German fuel-cell.

The reason being it would be expensive to do so without firm orders; since the Russian Navy apparently settled for higher-endurance Lithium-ion batteries on the Ladas rather than AIP and no export customer till date seems to have asked for it.

Exactly, the firm order or lack of customer. What they need is a risk-sharing partner which till now they did not get. (maybe Vietnam is the first?)
If say, India had ordered the 2x Kilos in the late 90s with the Kristal-27E AIP then the objective of getting a risk-sharing partner would have been achieved and by now we would have seen more powerful variant of the Kristal-27E.

I don’t think any long-endurance Lithium ion will be able to give submarine the endurance it requires unless there is a source to recharge the batteries. So RuN will in the future go for the AIP option. If they go for it earlier and put that on the lada class under construction and showcase it to the IN, the better.

When the Indian Navy started mooting its new AIP submarine tender in 2009 or so Rubin partnered up with Fincantieri and offered the S1000, an Amur variant with a fuel cell AIP from an Italian firm. So I don’t think any Russian systems are ready for production yet.

This S1000 is an Italian initiative to reap the benifits of a Russian design with some of their own systems. Its more like Italians wanting to do a Yak-130 kind of thing and create a space for them in the submarine marrket. It is a small submarine and cannot be compared to the more capable Amur-1650. The S1000 is probably based on Amur-750 or Amur-950 and meant for costal duties
http://www.fincantieri.it/cms/data/prodotti/000022.aspx

Italy was able to offer it because they had JV with the Germans on risk-sharing basis for their U212 submarines. Russia did not have the finance nor the luxuary of a risk sharing partner nor the backing of a RuN order and hence could not put into production their Kristal-27E.

But the time is ripe for India and Russia to partner on the AIP and move forward on risk-sharing as DRDO is also into AIP based on what Russia is going to showcase to the Indian delegation in December. As earlier mentioned, this is a new AIP tech and they have completed/in the process of completing the bench tests.

What we need to understand is that these projects are built like the MARS-500 module on the ground/lab and the system is validated. When the order is confirmed, a production variant is made ready.

I think there is something of a perception gap here that this last posting really brings into sharp relief.

The colour coding on the pipes is a representative observation. At the most basic level a well-designed boat is one optimised for its crew to be able to fight and keep operational under the worst emergency conditions. What the poster is describing is a boat where the designers have had either inadequate experience to make a proper job of it or have just lashed something together on the cheap. Either of those possibilities arrive at a finished unit liable to have many more issues in the snag list than just the pipes.

If I am right……….the whole thing did not start with color coding or stuffs like that.
But it started off with our Aussie expert’s judgement on the new pr.885 Severdovnisk class N-sub as being doomed for failure or something on that line. I’ve not read much about the naysayers on the Yasen class…so can’t put the exact details on what it was.

The current discussion of color coding for piping/wiring is just change of goalpost. JMT