Wrong. You can not claim that one side suffers more than the other. Both sides suffer and that is out of question. To break the cycle of violence you have to name those responsible for that. For the Lebanese people it is the own government at first as it is for the Israeli people theirs.
It was for all Lebanese people to read and to hear month before in the open. Hezbollah gave away that it has 12000 rockets brought into Lebanon and it is able to reach every town in Israel with that nearly! The same group questions the excistense of Israel in total. The same group conducted several border incidences after Israel left Lebanon in 2000. That was all observed by the UN. The UN was aware that the Syrian troops in Lebanon were an obstacle to disarm that dangerous group. Syrian troops had to leave Lebanon therefore, but nothing happened about disarming. The time-bomb was ticking for all to see. The Lebanese government and army showed themselves unwilling or unable to remove that constant threat for the security of Lebanon. When you are not willing to face a looming danger you have to bear the consequences from that. Israel has no intrests in Lebanon except a quit border. I think most Lebanese people think similar about a quit border, but they did and do not show their will in the public to exercise political pressure on Hezbollah and their own government to fullfill that. None can claim he was not aware about the looming danger from Hezbollah for Lebanon before!
I can not see, that Israel is happy to start some sort of disarming Hezbollah at all, which is still the duty of the Lebanese government! It will cost the Israeli people a dear, with questionable results, when not finished by the Lebanese government really!

I didn’t claim that one side suffrers more than other, just asked wheter you were claimimg so…

And what comes for Lebanese ability to trow out hizbollah, I think they would have done it if they were able. These things dosen’t happen in one night, you got to give time and most importantly help…and this however it may seem isen’t helping the situation. Did Israel ever seeked a diplomatic solution? Why isen’t there UN troops disarming the Hizbollah? Why isen’t there UN troops in palestinian areas?

But I fail to get your awnser to my question, so once again…If Israel is justificated to attack on lebanon and kill innocent civilains on the basis that they didn’t do nothing, Is Hizbollah and Hamas justificated to attack towards Israeli civilians on the basis that they support the regime that opress them??

I’m simply saying that I don’t see the attitude over there ever changing so why even try. It’s been proven that talks don’t work with these groups so what can one do?

You are right, talking wont do any good, You actually need to do something concrete…

I hope someday I can meet enough Arabs to be able to change my mind. I want to believe that they are a caring people and that they can accept people of other faiths and ethnic groups, but thus far I haven’t seen evidence of this.

You need to change your TV programs 😉

I also toughted years ago that all americans are arrogant bullies with no slightest idea about real life and real world…but now meeting and discussing with many of them I found myself being wrong. It’s all down to individuals. Most adult americans (kids in every part of the world are just the same :p ) are actually quite reasonable guys and I expect this is the case with pretty much every where in the world…

…But as it down to indivisuals, then ofcourse there are exeptions :diablo:
Let me ask you, have you ever met any arab living in middle east? Even discussed with then over internet? Or do you create your image on them acording what your government/corporation chiefs allows you to watch on the news…??

It is. I do not see the Lebanese pay for the damage in Israel. People sitting in shelters do not work. In regions under constant danger of erratic Katjuscha-attacks you can not exspect much investments, new inhabitants or tourists. Who pays for the security guards in every restaurant and shop to avoid “bombing-parcels” or “human-bombers”. Something the Lebanese have not to face the same way in daily-life. None forced Hezbollah or Hamas to wage a war of terror constantly. As long as the local population tolerate it or support it in other ways, it will suffer from the responses in the same way.
As long as someone gave that population the feeling, that there is nothing wrong in their behavior nothing will change really.

What lebanese doesen’t have to face in everyday life…Do you really want to go to the dark path of comparing lebanese and isreali peoples suffering???

But my point is, that acording to your locig, As long as Israeli people supports the regime which have no respect towards any international agreements and keeps hitting intetionally to civil targets killing hunrdres (alone in this campaing) of civilians and destroys civilian infastructure, it will suffer the same way??

Witchs circle that is called, I belive, and as long as people thinking same way as you do are in power, the circle will be unbroken and like they sang it so good back in the good oll days;

In the fields are bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds

Your logic of Lebanese should pay for the actions…Isen’t it applied to Israel as well? The same logic gives the Hizzbollah and Hamas and all others the same justifications to attack against civilian targets. Only the methods are different. You cannot have douple-standarts and then expect some sort of approval to your actions.

Absolute wrong. When you take the Arabs seriously, you can not claim double standards. The people in Lebanon and their elected government did something wrong. They started a border-war without a real reason for that.
The consequences from that were not unknown to those, who triggered it. I never got the feeling, that they did all in need to prevent that and for that I red UNFIL reports.
When you do something wrong you have to bear the consequences or correct that as fast as possible! In the real world mistakes can kill you!
It is in the hands of the Lebanese people to stop that bloodshed imidiately. None demanded something impossible from the Lebanese people.
In my eyes it is wrong and it will prolong the bloodshed there, when I give the Lebanese people the wrong impression, that the outside world will correct their mistakes always.

Tell that to those whos family or closest are being killed…What about those who never voted for hizbollah? There is no justification to this Israel attacks whatso ever, fear of terrorism doesen’t give you the right to spread terrorism by yourself. There are many other ways to get wrid of Hizzbollah, a diplomatic ones that doesen’t require blood. But did Israel seek for them? No, becouse they know that under USA supporting their backs, they can get away of anything, killing innocent civils for example. Its like if you let the dog comming to your sofa once or twice, you can bet your ass that it does it again and again…

But like you said, you do wrong and there is consequenses…In this case it’s a yet another generation of those who have quite good reason to hate Israel…

That’s probably true, but it doesn’t change my opinion. I can’t help how I feel. I feel that the majority of those in that region who are Islamic Arabs would have a problem with me simply because I’m an American….most would likely hate and despise me in.

Do you know, that the reason why I stopped to posting in this thread earlyer was that I realized in the middle of yours and other bloodthirsty foaming and “Lets’ kill them all…” mentaly that I started to feel the same about Israelians….why not let them suffer, even hoping that hizzbollah should attack on bigger cityes so that casuality will rise…hope they at least then knows how it feels….

…But at least I felt ashame of these feelings and stopped myself before actually offending someone…

I really hope all Israelians can feel safe after this all is done…becouse it hell sure have paid a big prize… 🙁

What happened to my bet?? You mods didn’t see my apeal for little bit of humanity slobbly hidden behind cynical northern sarcasm?? Well who cares, they are just arabs…

Stop Kassams and I will believe such words. Otherwise empty words only!
I am shure you orginised demonstrations for that in Helsinki, did you?!
As long as someone is not in personal danger, he can claim what he want.
When in error he/she has not to bear the consequences from that.

And when living in fear you are privileg to spread that fear around and actually doing much more horrible deeds that ever possiple to accomplish by the sources of your own shiwering????

…And what comes to setting up a demonstrations in helsinki, well I wait the gas prize rising over 1,50 € and then make my moves 😉

PS. How on earth did I get myself drag into this once again :rolleyes:

I wont take part of the rambling…like I said before I’ve had enough of it..(and you don’t fool me, deep in your heart there is a peace loving leftish in everyone of us, In you too suflanker45 :p )

I said the EU has large not huge muslim populations and they are just big enough too worry them. Like the riots in France and the blowback from those political cartoons about the prophet Mohammed.

Actually I saw this news report that there actually is bit of confusion among our skinheads (mostly those living in…well anywhere else than in helsinki) as there is just too few “foreingers” to beat up :confused: acording to that report, many of them had have to leave their belives and grow some hair again… 😮 :rolleyes: 😎 😉 :dev2:

HALLOOOO????

Sorry to drift this facinating discussion slightly oftopic, but again, have anyone heard about the F-16 alledgely been shot down???

Here’s a video of it, http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3277234,00.html

Israelis ofcourse are saying that the claims are false, but in that video there is obviosly some sort of wreck falling down from the sky, and I don’t belive it being a missfired katyusha like the Israels arew saying…