Not sure that first one is such bad news for Remain to be honest J

He states:
“The BDI would urge politicians on both sides to come up with a trade regime that enables us to uphold and maintain the levels of trade we have, although it will become more difficult.”
Mr Kerber added that any introduction of tariffs would lead to job losses in Germany and the UK.
He said a vote to leave the EU would lead to a “serious disruption” to the German-UK economic relationship, describing it “as if a relative had left the family”.

This is a single outfit, influential in Germany, just in Germany though. It also says that if a favourable trade deal isnt negotiated the introduction of tariffs would lead to job losses. Which is what Remain have been saying all along and which has been dismissed as scare-stories by Leave. Well here is yet another business leader saying the same thing.

Would there be a negative impact in the EU…yes. Is it going to be very, very much less than the negative impact in the UK….yes!. Trade with the UK amounts to 3% of the EU’s amalgamated GDP. Trade with the EU amounts to roughly 17% of UK GDP. The EU can withstand the tariffs a damnsight better than we will IF a trade deal cant be negotiated in time…for instance if Schengen membership was attached as a condition of UK membership…as it was for Switzerland.

Test of our newly invigorated sovereignty that would be wouldnt it?. Take Schengen or take the job losses and austerity from dropping 17% of your GDP!.

John,

Take your blinkers off ! The unelected EU Commission, in secret, run the EU. Their meetings are secret and the means by which they arrive at their conclusions are also secret. The EU Parliament can only advise and consult they can’t change anything.

…and you take the tinfoil hat off!. How is it ‘secret’ when the Commission has a UK representative within its number who is appointed by the elected UK government?. The EU parliament has veto powers last time I checked the rules.

It is not about rich but political system that support real scientific human potential, industrialization, look at South Korea/Japan/Taiwan. they surviving alone. Japan even supply largest composites to Boeing. Japanese factories in Mexico/China/Vietnam/Indonesia beating US firms.
its called efficient utilitzation of labor and robots

The question is why you trading 45% with this block?. unless your factories are just assembly line or subcontractors to bigger EU based firms.

with right futuristic products that has no substitute with real value how can any one deny market access?

if you keep mediocre system. UK will be keep drowning in debt to finance twin deficits. no amount of market access can make it work.

JSR,

The point of that post was actually to try and explode this myth that, in a very interconnected world, sovereign will exists seperate to fiscal reality. If anyone understood that point I thought it would be you having watched Russia’s abrupt fall from power with the crumbling oil prices!. Who listens to a poor man eh?.

Lets address your points though. Japan was rebuilt to service the US market and did so diligently….its ‘system’ is based on that artificial construct and is applicable nowhere else. South Korean and Taiwan you say employed ‘efficient utilitzation of labor’….if thats the new term for ‘total exploitation of a very low paid workforce’ it is an amusing one. As with Japan its not a model that fits into a 21st century western country. 19th century perhaps….!.

You say: with right futuristic products that has no substitute with real value how can any one deny market access?

….so all we have to do is build a better mousetrap and the world will flock to our door eh JSR?.

Drivel. This is the wider message on the debate as well. The leave side is all theory and concept…hope and pipedream. Its fluffy visions of Spitfires over the white cliffs of Dover….possibly with an E-type or two driving through the perfect green countryside. I love the imagery too….I’m enough of a proud Brit to make Rii actually vomit. I’ve worn my countries uniform and sworn an oath to defend it and I did so, stood in a big lecture hall on a base in Plymouth, with a pride I’ve seldom felt before or since.

Our Britishness isnt the issue here though. Our prosperity is. Is the EU broken…at a certain level yes. Undoubtedly so….the EU leadership have even publicly stated that their push for political union has failed and hasnt got the support of the man on the street in London, Amsterdam, Milan, Madrid or pretty much anywhere other than, perhaps, Brussels or Strasbourg. That battle is over and the Eurocrats have already lost it.

We have an opportunity to build a better EU in the post-union world and we can do that while supporting all the jobs and revenues that we depend on now. We have to be there to do it though. I know a lot of boys and girls across Europe and there is a general feeling of respect towards the UK….its acknowledged that we ‘know the ropes’ and that when push comes to shove we can generally be trusted to do the right thing. We have a leadership role to play if we have the vision and courage to play it. Or we can retreat to our island and pretend the nasty foreigners are someone elses problem?.

The historical dimension is interesting but the key issue is more immediate than historical. To quote an American ‘Its the economy, Stupid’. Interesting academic points are worthy of study and comment, but, not at the expense of families livelihoods. Especially not those working class families with least ability to take the hit.

This is a watermark event in British politics though….a low watermark. Never in a British political campaign have I seen so many people actively proud of their own ignorance. The economic experts all say that a leave vote will really hurt. We see evidence actually live in the international markets of devaluation following Leave gains and strengthening caused by a positive poll for Remain. Yet despite this clear and incontrovertible evidence backing the statements of the apolitical Bank of England we have Gove saying that there are too many experts and not to listen to them.

Despite organisations all over the scientific, industrial and business sectors almost unanimously saying that leaving will be harmful to our national prosperity we have people sagely saying that its all just scare tactics?. Scare tactics?. Stephen Hawking, according to these people, is guilty of using scare tactics?!!!. What???

Despite the clear statement of the outgoing President of the US saying that negotiations for a bilateral trade deal with the UK will be a low priority for his country for the forseeable future…and that the general US feeling is that Britain would be a bigger player inside the EU we have people confidently predicting that, free of the EU, we’ll be able to strike up trade deals with the US within the space of a couple of years.

….and that despite the fact that Canada’s attempts to do just the same thing with the EU has so far taken 7 years and that Switzerland had to sign up to Schengen to get anywhere at all!.

Yet people are proud of their ability and their zeal in ignoring all these simple, glaring, facts. It is quite literally pitiful.

never thought about it I will find it here from naval and missile technology. These Honda/Toyota/Nissan came to UK because it was as populus as France/FRG without nationalistic industrial policy of France/FRG. I used the word population it mean access to skill labor and market. How is Honda can have access to skill labor in Germany when it had to compete with essentially government backed VW?
now things have changed. new robotics manufacturing enable them to built vehicles in Turkey and Eastern EU with software development spread around.

if you don’t pay funds to EU system and accept trade deficits (those trade deficits need to be financed by Middleastern money selling real estate and stocks) they will make your exports even more uncompetitive and open the doors for countries who want to stay or join.

JSR,

You’ll have to forgive me for this, but, with your narrowly-focused pro-Russia standpoint when it comes to discussing the future of the EU I doubt your motives. Your interest here is in seeing the EU disintegrate and, therefore, increase Russia’s much-diminished power in Europe isnt it?. Note to ‘Leavers’ this is the sort of person you are encouraging with your anti-EU message!. Beware the law of unintended consequence.

What you say about technology changing the manufacturing environment to some degree is accurate of course. The car manufacturers have, of course, already deployed this technology in the UK so it would be a relatively simple matter to move the equipment to another location. This only makes it more imperative though that no reason for the manufacturers to do that is put in front of them.

Leaving the EU and finding ourselves with 8% import tariffs for UK manufactured vehicles would be such a reason for them to look at EU based sites possibly among nations with cheaper but adequately skilled workforces. At present they have no reason to do so as, like you said, the UK is a stable and solid business environment and the manufacturing sites in Swindon, Deeside, Derby, West Midlands etc are real good-news stories for British manufacturing. We dont need to hold an axe over them for no better reason than to make a few ‘Little Englanders’ feel more English.

That is regarding a copyright infringement.

As the article goes on to say:
Five other companies, including Vauxhall and Toyota, have all said they’ll stay in the UK whatever the result of the referendum”.

Not exactly.

They’ve commited to seeing out their current 5yr spending cycles. No further commitment than that.

Bruce,

You know well what is at stake for the OUTERS – SOVEREIGNTY. Just that alone will, for me, suffice. Answerable only to Whitehall, not Brussels. How many more times does it have to be mentioned ?

Yep so when the economy hits recession and our manufacturing sector takes the body blow of lost exports it will be our SOVEREIGN government that has to agree to Schengen to get let back into the market.

Just thought I’d check you’ve remembered that John.

The Venator110 is actually a decent stab at the job of getting key sensor/weapon/offboard effector packaged into a light frigate. As I understood it though Type31 is being funded to give BAe something to design. If we were looking for an off-the-shelf cheap design you’re on the phone to Damen for a license to the XO131A and you tinker with it to fit systems that tie in with T26. Job done.