Arthur,

Good point on the 10 “own goals”!.

I know what you’re saying about the IRA not going in for retaliation attack cycles in the main, though there are certain notable examples of just that pattern, what I was referring to though was the notion that hitting Afghanistan was going to eradicate the Al Quaeda terrorist organisation once and for all. By discussing the ongoing terrorist activity closer to home I was attempting to make the point that Kev made so much clearer and more adequately – that the nature of the enemy isnt such that one nice big stand-up fight was ever likely to resolve the situation. That’s not to say though, I hasten to add, Afghanistan was a waste of time and effort as, quite clearly, it wasn’t.

Ben,

I phrased that poorly and you’re quite right to pick me up on my words. I had limited amount of time to make that post and didn’t notice the blunder after I’d posted it – sorry for that.

What I was meaning, of course, was that the terrorists clearly didnt use the same logic that Keltic had proposed in that Spain’s support for the Iraq War had made their interests an “enemy” to be more robustly targetted when a nation that was very vocal in its opposition to the US/UK/Spanish sponsored actions, more likely to be considered a “friend” by them, also found its citizens victimised.

Apologies again for the clumsy language. 5/10 must try harder on my part!.

Keltic,

If you choose to look on this one Moroccan incident in isolation I could understand your point that Spain, at Aznar’s whim, had set itself up as a greater target on the global terrorist shooting range. Thing is though there is a global context here with the events in Saudi, Kenya, Mombassa, Bali and god knows in however many other places forming pieces of the same picture.

To therefore take this one incident, state it as being an attack focussed on Spanish interests and hold Aznar directly responsible for it seemed more to do with your personal antipathy for Aznar and less the unbiased and considered views you usually post.

Of course I’m not, for a second, saying its inappropriate for you to come on here and have a damn good, old fashioned, rant at someone who winds you up – after all there is a well developed tradition of that on these boards – its just that some annoying twerp is likely to pop up and disagree with you somewhere along the line!.

Keltic,

Skythe is right on so many levels here. By nature terrorism isnt a problem that lends itself to elimination at one stroke and Afghanistan was very much simply one battle (even if an important one) in a very long, low intensity, conflict. Look at the more local example of ETA and the Basques in your own country then scale that up.

In this attack the very fact that the Belgian place got caught in the blast shows very clearly that terrorists do not distinguish between friend and enemy when striking. You may wish to read a lot into the fact that a Spanish resteraunt got caught in the blast but I suspect few others will.

Using this as a method to bring back up the issue of Aznar as a “bad guy” because he acted in isolation of public opinion in Spain seems a lot more to do with your agenda of taking potshots against someone you dont like than a comment on a possible threat to Spains security and more than a little opportunistic, on your part, to me I’m afraid.

Essentially no Hand its not a matter of legal interpretation of 1441. The sanctions placed on Iraq where so ordered under UNCR 661 back on 6 Aug 1990 and then modified in the context of UNCR687, 707, 986 and several others.

1441 doesnt refer to terms for the lifting of sanctions in any specific fashion that I’ve been able to determine in the quick scan I’ve given it. In fact I’ve yet to find any specific parameter (outside of the vacating of Kuwait by Iraqi forces set under 661 back in ’90) that would legally trigger the lifting of the sanctions in any of the UNSC resolutions!.

Certainly, if the only legal framework for the sanctions was that set by UN661 qualified by the prohibited actions levied against Iraq under UN678 and UN687, then by the letter of the law those sanctions are technically void anyway now.

You guys are missing the whole point I’m afraid.

Weapons of Mass Destruction are a threat when they are fielded and wielded by someone who just might use them. Plainly now it is obvious that the weapons are squirrelled away somewhere very dark and deep and that the political authority, in Iraq, to use them has gone, departed, is no longer existant etc!.

No Saddam Hussein to order the use of WMD’s means that no WMD’s are going to be fired by the Iraqi’s which, in turn, means the threat has gone if you take it down to its most simplistic level. No threat from the Iraqi’s, and a population now trying to figure out what benefits “freedom” has just brought them, means that the sanctions are no longer relevent and are actually handicapping the potential of a populace at a pivotal moment in their social development.

Then again though for certain countries, countries owed money by Iraq, the ability to demonstrate that they can exert influence over the course of events in Iraq might be quite handy I suppose.

Ink,

Nice one!. Good to see you mate!

Rabie,

Definitely – couldnt agree more! Arthur is the other one who really looks like his persona (which is intended as a compliment I assure you Art!)

Steve,

You seem to be writing from a position of some authority – how many and how old? 🙂

You wrote: “Dad, why are you grinning? And what’s that button for…?”

You’ll never now how precisely accurate you are with that comment! I have another picture in that sequence, taken about 60 seconds earlier, showing dear sprog heading for the safety wires to then climb halfway through “to see how far up from the water we are!”. Part of the reason she’s sulking in the photo is that a Polish Navy officer gave her a (polite and nod-and-wink-to-parent) bollocking for going where she shouldnt!

Amazing the depths of desperation that pre-teen children can drive you too, eh…?

If theres a greater truism than that anywhere in print I’ve yet to see it! 🙂

Cheers lads.

If we can add in pics of kith and kin as well here’s one of Mk.1 daughter standing somewhat nervously behind an RBU-6000 ASW rocket launcher. Children are so useful in assisting with scaling photographs!.

PS Ink. Could you have provided a more vague photo!? 🙂

Heard the one about the diesel sucking air out the ship…dont buy it at all I’m afraid!.

Our subs have monitors to keep track on the air pressure in the boat and, with dielectric boats with big engines, the relative high chances of a wave washing over the snorkel and causing the diesel to suck internal air are such that I cannot imagine anyones boats NOT being fitted with a similar monitoring system. The analogy would be someone deciding to economise on a car design by ommitting the brake lights.

The other thing is that reserve air group valves are usually not more a few feet from someone who knows what they do and, again, there should be compressed air storage enough to repressurise the boats atmosphere, certainly enough to forestall hypoxia and asphyxiation very speedily to hand i.e within a very few seconds of the effects of oxygen deprivation being noticed. If nothing else everyones ears popping should have been a good indicator of an air pressure drop in the boat and actions to remedy these situations should be amongst the first lessons the crew had before they set foot aboard the boat!!!

Some people have commented, like Crobato originally, on some form of gas leak in the hull that, somehow, remained undetected while it poisoned the crew and had physiological effects that caused death so swiftly that none of the crew were able to get an SOS off. Can’t think of a substance commonly found on a boat that would fit those parameters?

Hell of a mystery now!

Larry Bond’s influence on the early Clancy books is all too often missed IMO and his books Red Phoenix, Vortex and Cauldron are all every bit as good as the best of Clancy’s stuff.

Other than Bond, Eric L. Harry is one of the best authors I’ve read and his book Protect and Defend is one of the most involving techno-thrillers I’ve ever read and Arc-Light probably one of the scariest since I read Trinity’s Child by William Prochnau!. Both books by Harry I’d strongly recommend and Prochnau’s book I’d recommend for anyone about to undergo root canal work as it will surely take your mind off any impending pain!