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China’s 4th generation fighter (called 5th generation fighter in Russia) development is entering the wind tunnel testing stage. At least two types of stealth fighter wind tunnel tests are undergoing in Shenyang. In comparison, Russia’s 5th generation fighter is now still at planning stage. SUKHOI declared at the MAKS 2003 that the institutions responsible for the research and development of the avionics, radar, engine, weapon system, optic, guidance and communication systems for 5th generation fighter had all been designated in March this year. In the same month, the Russian Air Force forwarded to SUKHOI the technical assignment on conducting of experimental-design works concerning the 5th generation fighter. In July, the State agreement on new technologies and experimental research was signed. It can be concluded that Russia’s development of the 5th Generation fighter has been formally started. The formal wind tunnel test will likely be conducted after 2004.

Mr. Sergey S. Korotkov, the Vice General Manager of SUKHOI Aircraft Company, told Kanwa at the interview that the modeling stage of the overall project has been completed. There are a variety of design concepts, and none of them has entered the stage of wind tunnel test. He said that the 5th generation fighter would not use AL41 engine; rather, it will adopt brand new engine.

In the last 10 years, selling China SU series fighters alone brought Russia purchase orders of US$10 billion in value. Nevertheless, Russia’s development of 5th generation fighter is obviously falling behind China. Surely, thanks to Russia’s superior foundation in aviation industry and its mature radar, engine and avionics series technologies, it does not mean that the service time of the Russian 5th generation fighter will be far behind that of China. Despite that, it is a solid fact that the gap between China and Russia in aviation technologies is becoming smaller.

Kanwa’s investigation reveals that due to sufficient injection of financial resources, China is now entering all technological areas related to the US and European 5th generation combat aircraft, including TVC engine, new generation phased array multi-functional fire control radar and some others. In the last 10 years or so, at a time when the Russian aviation industry was at a standstill, China accelerated its steps of learning from Russia in almost all areas of aviation technologies. China’s “digestion” of the Russian technologies has been very fast. The homegrown 1473 radar system fitted on J10A fighter proves that China’s own advanced radar development has walked out of the stage of experimentation, probing or absorbing foreign new technologies. China is entering a period of self-confident application of her own cutting-edge technologies. Meanwhile, China is also researching/developing the radar system capable of tracking 15 targets and attacking 6 simultaneously. In the development of engines, all new experiments are being conducted on the WS10A platform. In the future 10 years, WS10A and its subsequent upgraded versions are expected to enter actual application stage.

Senior General Kornukov, the Russian Air Force Commander-in-chief, told Kanwa in 2001 that Russia did not invite China to participate in the research of 5th generation fighter. SUKHOI also stressed lately that the whole project would basically be conducted by Russia alone, with SUKHOI as the leading institution plus the participation of other design bureaus like MIKOYAN and YAKOVLEV. Besides, Russia has had some prospective discussions with India in this regard.

Russia and China’s new generation fighter development may conclude around the same period of time, and the fact itself proves that the generation gap between the two countries in this particular area is narrowing down.

doesnt the Piranha have a REALLY short range compared to R-73 and AIM-9 and other short ranged dogfighting missiles?

I don’t think it looks anything like an F-16, more like an F-18 style fuselage to me and I wonder what kind of wing it is, can someone post pics of the T-50?

If they really wanted the best plane they would’ve picked the Su-35 or Gripen long time ago, but this is becoming more of a political competition. The Su-35 and Gripen deals are probably the best and I don’t know how Mig-29 or F-16 deals were.

Either Super Flanker or Gripen and fine by me, anything besides that would make Brazil look really stupid.

Was I comparing the JAS-39C/D or LCA to anything in this topic?

No but you were saying that just because one plane has better performance than the other one, the other one sucks. It doesn’t mean crap, just because FC-1 can do about 75% of an F-16 doesn’t mean FC-1 sucks. Performance isn’t everything.

Doesn’t mean it is good either.

Ohh it matters

Only Indonesian, Venezuelan and Pakistani F-16s are non-BVR capable in other words they are limited to only being able to use the AIM-9P-4/L and R-550 Mk2 or whatever. Even Jordan and Egypt have the AIM-7M on their F-16s (which came free by the way). Hell Singapore, Taiwan and Thailand now have the AIM-120 on their F-16s. Getting cleared for that system is not terribly hard.

Yes but AIM-7 any version is not very good, can you list all the F-16 users without AIM-120?

To be honest we don’t know yet. That’s what makes these FC-1/LCA/J-10 vs. the rest of the world topics silly as in the end the planes are unproven and not ready and the topic falls back to that in the end.

THat’s kind of true when we know very little about them especially J-10 and FC-1

god ANY good Su-15 Flagon pics of any AF? I really want some pics of that aircraft, it’s probably one of the least discussed Russian aircraft.

An F-16A/B ADF goes for between 7-12 million dollars apiece. That’s a fully BVR capable fighter with American tech support and weapons such as the AIM-120. The FC-1 cannot compare with that price.

But those are very used F-16s with very little life in them not to mention it’s not very easy to get the AIM-120. FC-1 might cost twice as more than that, is a smaller plane with less range and payload but it comes with much less political demands, come NEW and not used and above all with SD-10 and other weapons. AIm-120 is not very guaranteed. FC-1 is also sopposed to be easier to maintain

And the F-16 can carry bigger ones the point being. And under wing tanks would not kill the offensive load of an F-16 (9 loading points) as much as it would kill the FC-1s (7 loading points). An F-16A/B ADF could carry 4 AIM-120s, 2 Mk.84s, 2 under wing fuel tank, an ECM pod under the center, and a LDP. Can the FC-1 do the same? No because it lacks the places to put those.

No but we don’t even know what kind of weapons FC-1 will exactly carry

Stick with comparing the FC-1 to the LCA.

why so? because of size or performance or tech?

As for the RMAF F/A-18E/F hornet deal, thats very unlikely, those Sewer Hornets are very expensive.

Somehow I tend to disbelieve Troung. He thinks that F16A at this moment is better then FC1 with latest. How come. We do not even know what is in side the fc1… And I doubt that those F16’s have much lifetime left. And thinking that US is the best supplier unless one is Pakistan or Indonesia… Man. Sounds very subjective. All I wanted to say that there is enough market share for Fc1… Just like K8 started to enter the cheap section. I don’t say it is a hawk but there is a market share..

We don’t know whats FC-1 going to carry exactly(weapons) nor what kind of radar or avionics it will carry.

FC-1 seems to be a very very good Mig-21 replacement, it’s cheap, doesn’t offer the best capabilities but it’s the best bang for the buck plane probably in the World today, it has a lot of room to grow and is more like a plug and play plane in which you can put all kinds of stuff in or different stuff.

Besides, if you’re a close US ally then US would be a good supplier but if you’re not so close then there is no way you’re gona get those AIM-120s or anything else better, besides tons of nations out there cannot afford F-16s very well. A new FC-1 regardless of it’s “75% performance of F-16” shouldn’t cost anywhere above 20mn, yet a new F-16blk40/50 costs anywhere from 50 to 70mn.

truong seems to be too Anti-Russian-Chinese and seems to hate Russian-Chinese equipment and thinks it never works, fine examples are some discussions in ACIG or even here where his whole point was Arabs should not be getting anything Russian because they’ve had bad experiences with it in the past yet he refuses to look at technical points or even history. Same with the Serbia should go instead with F-16A/Bs which have little life in them, not going to get AIM-120, require whole new infrastructure instead of going with buying few more Mig-29s and upgrade all to SMT, it really doesn’t make sense.