You show a complete lack of knowledge.

Far from it, although you still keep using weasel words to justify something that may well not go as well as is being suggested.

Do you think boeing gives a squat about what you think or what I think?

Nope, but that doesn’t mean we’re not entitled to debate the issue here.

Delivery aint the same as EIS… EIS can be days away from delivery or weeks away

Indeed…

The delivery of the first aircraft – a 787-8 – to ANA is scheduled for May 2008, and it will enter service shortly afterwards.

No doubt you’ll use more riggle-words to say that “shortly” could mean anything, but to all intents and purposes for Boeing to meet the industry perceived targets they need to get the airplane to ANA and ANA need to get it into operation in May 2008, or thereabouts. As you say, certification date is irrelevent, what matters is when its revenue flying with the airlines.

i have got a word of it (again my source so only take it at face value , nothing concrete) that boeing might think to get the cert. done by May (remember Cert is less then 50% of testing according to boeing so if the original timetable was 7-8 months to Delivery then it was only half of the flying that was for cert) and then work with ANA and the likes to do route prooving , and other prooving runs (in toto – worst case or partially – optimistic) when the aircraft is in service . That is the reason why mentioned EIS and delivery as separate things because contractually they are 2 different things . Boeing only specifies the delivery dates it is upto the airline to put it in service .

Sigh! See above – ANA entry into service “shortly after” the May 2008 delivery. Aircraft don’t go into service until route proving is done – indeed, much route proving needs to be done BEFORE certification. Sure, the likes of ETOPS can be delayed until after initial entry into service, but even if we assume Boeing COULD work with ANA on route proving post-delivery (some route proving by ANA will be necessary to get the type on their AOC in any case), it still needs to be done very very quickly – no drawn out process that your “then work with ANA and the likes to do route prooving , and other prooving runs” suggests – otherwise the industry percieved EIS will be missed and Boeing will be regarded to have failed to deliver to promise.

Andy

So, the Plastic Pig’s first flight is going to be late, is it? Well there’s a surprise! :rolleyes: Maybe they should have sub-contracted some of the work to Reliant here in the UK – they have experience of working with composites, and one of their products even flew for a while – thanks to Top Gear! :p

IMHO EIS is going to be a very big challenge now, not helped by the fact that winter flying means inclement weather can occasionally pose a challenge to certification flying. And its all very well getting the a/c to the customer, but it really doesn’t help if you’ve got to start sending mod kits out and planning down-time to get the in-service a/c up to regular production standard, and I’d be surprised if there aren’t some issues with the early a/c even if they make the EIS.

Does anyone see anything Airbus-esque in all of this – late aircraft, but execs still blowing sunshine up everyone’s a** about how they can still make the EIS?

Andy

Its more or less the same as class one for commercial pilots…

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx/docs/247/docs/%2033/default.aspx?catid=49&pagetype=90&pageid=529

So yes, colour vision will be checked. If you can’t do the normal coloured spots type thing, you will be allowed to do a lantern test which some find easier.

Andy

sorry do you mind me asking whats ETOP?

Its ETOPS – it stands for “Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim”

A

That mean’s then they will have to train the Cabin Crew/Flight Crew for 3 Different types of A/C which will be both expensive and they will have to have different crew for different A/C.

Not a big issue really. Cabin crew can legally be qualified on three a/c types concurrently – or at least they could when I was very involved with crewing at BM a few years back (where we had individual cabin crew qual’d on 737, Fk100 and A320, or DC9, ATP, Fk100 for example).

Andy

Suggestion elsewhere on the web that Jet2 are acquiring (have acquired) two 767-300ER from Gulf Air

Andy

I don’t recall ever seeing an Emirates A330 with the logo on the underside….

Indeed, that’s what I said…

Andy