ante_climaxIndia is in the top 5 countries in the world that violate intellectual property rights. That list also includes Russia.
If you include copying software and music yes I admit India is, but its done by the people and not the government. However our government do not endorse it and we certainly do not make our ‘Indows’ or Intedo Viis.
ante_climaxMore superficial nonsense? This whole thread and threads before have charged that China steals everything including the J-10. American sensitivites have nothing to do with the Chinese stealing the Lavi design. Another digression.
It has to do with conflict of interests. Israel ideally do not want its position weakend by a change in the world order (ie. China becoming more powerful than U.S its main benefactor) so it maintains good relations with China. Admitting the sale of Lavi design will not help the relations between U.S and Israel. The KJ 2000 is another example for Sino-Israeli co-operation which is not liked by the U.S.
Go back and read your initial post. You said the Russian were forced to sell to China. Going by your antagonism against China throughout, what else could it mean but claiming that China committed coercive acts against Russian to sell them stuff.
It is your lack of understanding of what I said. I never said the Russians were forced to sell by the Chinese. I said and explained that China was the only market for the fighters and engines at the stage and it was vital for Russia to fund its domestic programmes.
More spin. Formal dialog from a story from a newspaper? You how much stuff I can accuse of India just from reading newspapers? Formal because you declare it? I think formal is when the Russian government declares it not some newspaper speculating.
You heard it from the goat’s mouth from the head of Sukhoi itself that discussions are going on with the Chinese on the issue. Please accuse India or any country if you have read some Russian or French or American firm saying India copied its fighter/missile design without authorization. Feel free to quote.
I love how there’s a theme in here that you’re the final judgement on everything.
I am just saying the facts, you ofcourse is free to believe what you want to.
ante_climaxThere is no reason to doubt that. Russians only have SKAT project (AFAIK) while Americans have several UCAV designs. But I think UCAVs will not be able to replace manned fighters completely anytime soon rather than supplement them in high risk missions.
They had manned fighters even in Star Wars 🙂
ante_climaxI will tell you the difference between a copy and a counterfeit.
Copy is when you make a Nike Bag design in your factory and market it as Mike.
Counterfeit is when you make a Nike Bag design in your factor and market it as Nike.
The former, unfortunatley is acceptable in China but it is none the less stealing of IP for the rest of the world.
ante_climaxIf I haven’t destroyed anything then why did you bring up your pointless arguments, i.e. the law, that I destroyed. You’re the one guilty of digression.
Ha Ha
Changing the story again. What’s all this stuff about stealing then. If the Israelis sold or gave the design to China no matter if it was without consent of the US, it’s not stolen. Read all the posts arguing about the Lavi and J-10 connection. Virtually all of the claim the Israelis gave or sold it to the Chinese. Now that destroyes all the arguments that the J-10 was stolen. If your own logic starts contradicting itself, don’t blame anyone but yourselves.
I didn’t claim the J 10 was stolen. All I said was it is a copy of an israeli design. Which they do not admit because of American sensitivities.
I
love how you just contradict yourself. I don’t see anything forced in there. The Russians made the choice regardless and without any coercive acts by the Chinese. So stop trying to spin it that way. And I destroyed another one of your arguments since I showed you that Russia still has stuff they don’t sell to China.
I love this one. The situation is slightly different now? What does that mean? Is is like how you argued that when the West stole everything from China, there were no laws against it so it’s not considered stolen. So if the situation is different now, then the Chinese didn’t steal anything because it happened before the situation is different now.
You are still not getting me proper. The Russians made the choice because they needed to sell their products as China was the only customer at the stage, they hardly had a choice. Russian Armed forces do not buy equipment at the scale of American forces anymore, so it needs exports to break even, fund future projects etc.
Situation is changed now because the Su brand is catching on, Malaysia, Indonasia, Venezuela and others have committed to the brand, more countries may in the future. So it is slightly different from what it used to be. And there is no fault in selling the designs that you have already copied.
Russians still haven’t made a formal charge. It’s just as legitimate as acusing India of stealing as charged before in here.
Discussing the issues with the Chinese pretty much represents a formal dialogue. And no one apart from mr Farooq has claimed that Prithvi is a Russian rip off neither Russians nor Indians.
“We are in discussions with China on this issue,” said Mikhail Pogosyan, first vice president on program coordination, Russian Aircraft Corp., during a press conference here at the Aero India trade show.
ante_climaxPL-ASR and A – Darter
Sony Walkman and Sunny Walkman
there are a lot more, and a lot more to come am sure.
ante_climaxMy opinion is that PAK-FA will be a design superior to F-35, nothing else. I don’t know what a future US design will be and I certainly don’t pretend knowing so.
I also believe that PAK FA will be superior to F 35 in an A2A role and that it will come close to the Raptor in that regard. But I do not believe it will be as good a strike fighter as the F 35 or as versatile.
I was also just pointing out that by the time Russian designs matched and exceeded American designs in the 4th gen category, they already had fifth gen fighters ready.
This may happen again in future when PAK FA reaches its true potential the Americans may have 6th gen UCAVs. There will be a gap till Russia can match America financially.
ante_climaxExactly the same way they could beat Lockheed Martin 4th Generation Fighter.
Equal, come near slightly exceed etc are better words. Its also better to remember that when they did that LM had fifth gen figthers already ready.
ante_climax[QUOTE=Hell King;1366325]
And all you do is go in another direction when I just destroyed your argument.
You have not destroyed anything. You still cannot relate to my question about the west having eff all to do with the Chinese copying the Flanker.
If the Israleis sold the Lavi design to China, that’s not stolen according to you and all the bull artists in here.
It is allegedly copied. The Israelis deny it so as not to offend their American friends. When IAI head says that they gave it to you, I would say to you that your prized fighter is an Israeli ripoff. For now its only alleged.
More bull and spin. China ain’t putting a gun to anyone’s head. If that were true , why do the Russians still withhold their better stuff from China if China can force someone with a gun to their head?
No I think you misunderstood me. Russia was forced to sell not because she is afraid of your military might, but because she had few markets outside China and India. The situation is slightly different now.
So that’s the difference. It’s not stealing if no one calls it stealing. Love the superficial nonsense.
Israelis selling stuff to you behind American’s back is different from you stealing something outright from Russia.
ante_climax1. History is something that is made by doing things you have not done.
2. The first fourth generation fighters were not the best.
3. There is a chance of Russia equaling or coming near the Raptor.
4. There is a chance albeit a lesser one of PAK-FA being ‘compromised’ on stealth and avionics because of lack of funding.
5. Superiority is always relative. Raptor is clearly superior now. The PAK FA may equal the Raptor. The Americans may have another design to exceed that then.
ante_climaxLet us say this that there is a reason why the F 35 is avaliable for export while the F 22 is not.
ante_climaxCan you please give us the total amount of royalties India paid to Russia for their engine tech that went into Prithivi since you are so anti- reverse engineering/copying of technology?
Asking this question out of my respect for IP onlee.
It is neither acknowledged by India nor claimed by Russia. While you have Sukhois head admitting that China stole Su 27 design in making J 11.
You’re the one that brought up “the law.” The law follows precedent and precedent is about history. You opened up that can of worms. Now you you’re trying to make up statute of limitations adjusted solely according to your favor. Now you’re trying to close something that you thought was going to work in your favor.
What does it have to do with it? It’s not stealing according to every hypocritical bull and spin in here
You still have not answered any questions i posed.
Ante_climax has already proven beyond doubt that he nurses an unhealthy level of animosity towards China because of 1962 and bases his views on extreme right propaganda sites like Newsmax.
If i remember right, Me and Scoot were discussing the strategic implications of a Chinese aircraft carrier while you went on and played the nationalist card first. I replied in kind, which was not a very good thing to do, and I have learned from that mistake while I see that you still dwell on it.
So if you go by what ante climax charges, then it’s not stealing because the Chinese got willing assistance.
Willing assistance ? More like a country forced to sell to you regardless because of its limited international market.
ante_climaxSorry to tell you colonial imperialism where the West stole from China is recent history. There are many people still alive in China today that experienced Western aggression, human rights violations, and thievery. So according to the law, those people could actually make a legal claim against the West if they wanted. But we know the West makes and judges world law so that would get nowhere since they have a conflict of interests. Just like proclaiming China steals while the West doesn’t.
You see i don’t really want to get historical but some of the worst human right abuses in China were done by the Japanese and before them the Mongols. They are very much eastern people. This western-fear mechanism serves the government well in keeping the dissent low. The rest of the world is out to get us is the best motto for all non-democratic states. You may believe it if you want to.
For the nth time please tell me what the West has to do with China stealing a Russian design. I am hardly western I am just pointing out that its a copy so are the rest of us.
One can claim the US and the Russians stole everything from the Germans.
They worked on the designs of a conquered state under their control. Which is again much different from copying the product outright from a sovereign state.
ante_climaxAnd the West has a history of “stealing” according to their own logic. Just as the West gives themselves special circumstances to break laws, the Chinese can do the same. So it ain’t stealing according to all the bull spin in here.
Why do you mention things done 100s of years ago as your arguments ? China has also copied many things western ever since.
Chinese stealing a fighter design from Russia has nothing to do with the West. 😉
ante_climaxJust ignore the troll. He has no interest other then trying to get his vengeance for 1962.
I have no vengeance don’t wish to go off topic about 1962. I am just pointing out the fact that he is defending the indefensible.
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