Well I’m glad we have it sorted out.
Anyway, after years of speculations and precieved US equipmnent
superiority; we have the the test results which show oherwise.
As an aviation enthusiast and as some who got up close and personal with the US Jets i think the topic deserves it’s own forum not only a separate
thread. đ
No! I don’t think a different forum needs to be established…
However, this much I agree: It’s high time for all those who had been overly confident
of themselves and/or of their wares to start reassessing the machines of others and to come to terms
with the facts that other people’s wares may not altogether be as inferior as is painted.
đ
This is actually a Tu-16 Badger not Tu-95 Bear.I am not sure about the version letter but it is anti shipping as seen from the big radar below the nose.Are you sure that the picture is new cause i have seen it,or this aircraft version,few years ago too!
Badger:
Thanks for the correction. Source (from China.com)
however claims that this is a new variety. Can’t tell the difference
myself either. All Tu-16/H-6s look kinda similar to me.
Whats irritating is there are 5-6
Indian threads, some even onb teh same subject, such is the thirst
for self congratulations some have…..
đ
Hey people! Give the IAF some slack will ya!!!
I mean you guys have been having all the fun here thus far so how’s
about letting India catch a bit of that well deserved glimmer if just for this once. After all,
they were the ones credited with outwitting the mighty USAF. No???
Additionally, what diff does it make whether or not there is
another thread similer to this one. Is it a crime to try and start one of your own??? My position:
He have the right to post any subject he wants, doesn’t he???
So why the fuss??? Let him be people. He’s not hurting anyone…
đŽ
Here he goes again, our dear friend Richard Fisher:
Possible Russian Assistance for the Chengdu J-10A 5th Generation Fighter
Mikoyan Article 1.44
Status: A broad similarity between the J-10A and the MiG 1.44 may indicate Chengdu-Mikoyan cooperation on a 5th generation fighter program, performance specifications for MiG 1.44:
Length: 22.8m Wingspan: 17m
Weight: 35,000kg max takeoff
Engine: Saturn AL-41F, 40,000lb thrust with afterburner, thrust vectoring; or new indigenous engine
Performance: SPEED: 918kt supercruise; RANGE: 4,500km
Armament: New IR and Active radar guided AAMs, PGMs, internal carriage
Systems: RADAR: Advanced active phased array, integrated electroptical and ELINT systems; Possible plasma-stealth system; helmet display; glass cockpit; fly-by-wire
Information from Chinese brochures, a popular Chinese technical magazine, and published interviews with Chengdu officials suggests that Chengdu is developing a candidate for the PLAâs 5th generation fighter, called the J-10A. It is possible that Chengduâs program may be less developed than that of Shenyangâs, but its willingness to allow concept illustrations to be made public is consistent with previous Chengdu âmarketing.â But it could also mean this program is vying for PLA funding. Information released thus far suggests that Chengduâs design will be a single or twin-engined, twin-tailed canard with thrust vectoring and stealth features. It draws from the J-10, but also exhibits similarities to Mikoyanâs 1.44 5th generation technology demonstrator, especially in the forward fuselage, canard, wing and large dimensions. While there is no current reporting to confirm cooperation by Chengdu and Mikoyan, at about the time the Article 1.44 was unveiled in 1999, the PRC was reported in the Russian press to be offering to fund the MiGâs new fighter in exchange for sales of future sales or co-production in the PRC. Nevertheless, Chengduâs recent revelations suggest that such cooperation did proceed eventually. Inasmuch as Sukhoiâs proposal for Russiaâs 5th generation fighter has been chosen by the Russian government, it would also make sense that MiG would sell its competing design to recoup its investment.
Should the J-10A turn out to be based on the Mikoyan 1.44 project, then it would appear to be offering a larger and possibly more powerful contender than Shenyangâs proposal for a 5th generation fighter. Chengduâs fighter would likely be larger than the Lockheed Martin F/A-22 and possibly have a longer unrefueled range. The MiG 1.42 uses two powerful Saturn AL-41 engines (about 40,000lbs thrust with afterburner) which allow the fighter to âsupercruise,â or fly at about Mach 1.4 to 1.6 while not using fuel-guzzling afterburners. Its canard configuration and large delta wing, plus expected engine thrust-vectoring will confer âsupermaneuverability.â Chengduâs design, like the 1.44, will also feature internal weapons carriage and a new powerful phased array radar. The F/A-22 shares most of these design features. But in contrast to the F/A-22, the MiG 1.44 was reported to have employed Russiaâs plasma-stealth system, which surrounds the aircraft with ionic gas that is impervious radar. Its real beauty is that it allows avoidance of extensive stealth shaping of the airframe which may inhibit maneuverability. The PLAâs penchant for redundancy may result in eventual success for Chengduâs program, especially if the largely domestic technology driven Shenyang program meets with delays. While such an outcome would not bode well for the PLAâs domestic aerospace technology progress, one canât ignore the quite considerable effort begin devoted to the PLAâs next-generation combat aircraft.
– from http://www.uscc.gov/researchreports/2004/04fisher_report/7airforcesystems.htm
I guess Crobato is right: the Chinese need a back-up for everything they make.
Hell… Let them talk to themselves all they like.
They’ll never admit that “the world” is finally catching up to
them on the air supremacy and tech game anyhow.
Another one they’ll likely try and explain away soon:
http://www.china.org.cn/english/2004/Jun/99224.htm
Clinton’ll probably be the scapgoat on this one instead of MIT :D…
:rolleyes:
Another Indian AF thread……………
Whats the next one gonna be
“IAF pilot in toilet visit shock!”!?
From the pages of CNN
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/06/23/airforce.supremacy.reut/index.html
therefore, they aren’t kiddin’.
Americans are not known for admiting to faults and/or
to their short comings unless the oppostion (Kerry people) exerts political pressure upon
them. Therefore, more than meets the eye, this report.
My opinion only of course.
:rolleyes:
First, never, never underestimate the resourcefullness of other peoples.
Secondly, it’s hard to imagine that
Numero Uno would assert and/or even admit that
Sukhoi and MiG are as good if not better.
Therefore, it’s highly possible that modesty may have played a role here.
đ
đĄ
Man… There we go again!!!
As it seems, the same old same old espionage thingy
is happening all over once again!
I mean Golly, don’t they
ever get tired of the same BS over and over, and again
and again, endlessly đĄ ?!!!!!!!
Heck! I bet both Pakistan’s and India’s arsenalds are just as deadly if not more so
than those of the Chinese because of the direct foreign involvements the two got from the western
as well as northern sources as part of “those country’s China-containment policies” .
Look at it this way: I’m sure Pakistan’s and India’s art of refine nuke making didn’t just
simply come from out of thin air!!! So! Why don’t they target the Pakistanis and/or the Indians as well???
Why is it that, irregardless of rain or shine, that the Chinese are always the prime target???
Strange! Strange people indeed, the world from which this writter and publisher cometh!!!
đ
From The People’s Daily (China) 22 June
China denies reports of fighter jet sales to Zimbabwe
Chinese ambassador to South Africa denied reports of fighter jet sales to Zimbabwe in a press briefing held Monday in Pretoria. While answering a question posed by local media, Ambassador Liu Guijin said it is totally groundless for the report that Zimbabwe has made order to buy 240 million US dollars worth of Chinese made fighter jets. Liu Guijin said that he had immediately contacted with Chinese ambassador to Zimbabwe on the issue shortly after he had read the report. “We find that the report is not true and it is baseless,” he said. The Chinese ambassador said that the Chinese government already consulted the matter with the Zimbabwean government. South African Deputy Foreign Minister Deputy Foreign Minister Aziz Pahad also said that he was not aware of the claim made by the report. Local reports quoted military sources in Harare as saying that Zimbabwe will acquire 12 Chinese made FC-1s as replacements for the Chengdu F-7s, currently based in Gweru. The FC-1 would provide a credible answer to the challenge posed by the 28 JAS-39 Gripen multi-role fighters that the South African government has ordered from Saab, the Swedish arms manufacturer.
:rolleyes:
My understanding into how
things work in China and/or how, in general, the mind of
the average Chinese works:
Chinese, no matter if they are red or if white & blue, have this tendency or
this weakness of bowing out to (or caving in to political pressure) of foreign governments (or entities)
which have politcal pulls in the international community. And, of all African nations, South Africa is
on the top of this list. Hence, the tone change from the Beijing people, my opinion.
Reason for the above:
The inherent Chinese business-practice, or rule of thumb which says that “the more
dependable the prospect, the better the treatments” is trully the thing that drives it. South Africa as a future
and/or as a “potential trading partner” far outweights that which Zimbabwe can ever be.
It’s all lip services!!!
:rolleyes:
For whatever it’s worth, here’s the English version:
đ
Linkage taken from the PakDefense site:
Now, why don’t they just come right out and say it as it is instead of beating
around the bushes about the real reason as to why they are concerned? Truth: That it’s not as
rusty bucket or as MiG-21ish as some would like to believe that it is. Otherwise, why make such a big deal
about it. After all, it’s no diff from how it is that Taiwan get armed to the teeth
Sunday Times Foreign Desk
http://www.suntimes.co.za/2004/06/13/news/news02.asp
ZIMBABWE’S order for more than 240-million worth of jet fighters
from China flies in the face of a request by South African Foreign Affairs Minister Nkosazana
Dlamini-Zuma that the country stop selling arms in sub-Saharan Africa.
I mean the double standards simply just amazes me!!!
:confused:
đŽ
For those who savvy Chinese, can you please do the honors:
http://bbs.china.com/military/html/board_57_post/569415/2279674.html#2279674
Reason: I do not wish to appear
as if I am boasting. I am but merely trying to
pass along the rumors I come across.
đŽ
ignore SD-10, it’s pointless to argue with him
đŽ
Just for the fun of it:
Although it’s not my call here, however, what troubles me is the
question as to why would you say that??? Are you implying here that while there’s no point
in arguing with SD-10 that there is good cause to argue with you???
How typically self-rightious and typically self-complimentary some of us are!!!
:confused:
And there will be a double seater….
đŽ
Double seater??? Well…
for the FC-1, that’s probably a ways off yet. 2-3 years
at the earliest my opinion…
But, here’s a good looking double seater anyhow!!!


Cool, from these vantage, isn’t it? Wish they were the one’s that did those
sorties a day or two ago instead of the old timer F-7s!!! This one will definitely fill the void
which’ll be left vacant when the Fantans goes into retirement that’s for sure.
Something different still…
http://bbs.china.com/images/2004-06-13/1087100096Z-9G09.jpg
Either this chopper is
going all the way down or this pilot is
showing off his stuff.
:rolleyes:
Isn’t it less than 12 months since the first FC-1 flew?
If six of the jets that Zimbabwe have ordered really are ready for delivery “next week”, I think you can rule out them being FC-1. It’s not a question of production time but just “writing the manual” on how to fly and maintain the thing in service!
As the Zimbabwe AF F-7IIN aircraft are almost 20 years old now, isn’t it far more likely that any new deliveries will be of F-7MG jets?
Best regards
Steve Rush ~ Touchdown-News
A bit of humor but also the truth:
Have you read a manual written up by Chinese manufacturers on products they
marketed here (North America anyhow) lately??? It takes a genius to try and figure those
instructions. Therefore, I wouldn’t count on those operational manuals if I were you.
Example: I finally figure how to operate my CD player — through trial and error however!!!
.
However, sundaytimes report (second one) is clearer and seems more credible.
:confused:
The following applies here also:
http://forum.airforces.info/showpost.php?p=382930&postcount=16
Logic says “NO” but truth sometimes defies reality…
:confused:
Menacing if as boasted by developer(s):
http://www.wwgc.cc/dvbbs/UploadFile/200452623515198167.jpg
But, will it deliver as promise? Very competitive, my take…
Because it is important to be realistic and not nationalistic, this is an F-18 cockpit, that there is no doubt about.
:rolleyes:
Strange but true:
They are copying to the very last detail the best of Honda, of
Toyota, of BMW, and more (for Chinese market) with a vengeance and these
people can’t do zilch but to holler “INFRINGEMENT” of copyrights.
Where there’s a will, there’s a way???
:p