Diane
I presume that you are a non aviation and non military person so I can understand your difficulty in piecing all this information together but I think the truth of the story will be relatively simple in the end, so I think (respectfully) you might be in danger of reading too much into this. I see the words written in post 27 as having too many inconsistencies. You simply need to apply in person as a relative for the Service record of Stan, they will reveal all and the guys on this forum will help decipher them.

Stan’s remains would have been returned to his family (at their request otherwise the RAF would have buried him in the appointed Station cemetery) via an undertaker. I suggest that the undertakers would have been given the discreet but firm advice, that the coffin was not to be opened by family members due to the trauma the deceased had been subjected too, having been subjected to a violent crash and possible burning. A case of ” he was grievously injured , best remember him as when he left you”.

Stories get around easily in wartime with vast numbers of service men coming on leave and “shooting a line” in pubs, so, the ‘Sand’ story in Stan’s case may be just that, gleaned third hand later. I can’t conceive of any authority being so callous as to tell a grieving parent, “here’s your sons coffin but I’m afraid most of it is ballast”. It just wouldn’t happen.

As for medals he would be entitled to at least the War Medal and if this was not applied for at the time I believe it still can be. Anything else will depend on what length of service he had done. We can’t assume he was just a rookey Navigator because he was killed in a training plane from the Mosquito OTU . He might have flown ops in some other type prior to going to 60 OTU for conversion to Mossies.

The loss of control by the plane’s pilot could be caused by many factors, none having anything to do with the trainee crew, such as instrument problems, not using a vital instrument but relying on senses, lack of attention. turning against a failing engine, and even an engine fire getting out of control,so many things.

I wish you luck in your searches.

John

Superb picture of a Demon possibly of 604 Sqn (Red and Yellow triangles). The Lewis is a Mk.III (deeper trigger guard) with Norman Vane sights and to the right of the Ring and Bead forwards sights can be seen the mounting for the Aldis sight. The boy on the right is holding on to the barrel clip (when the gun is stowed aft).

John

The steel tube, wood and fabric fuselage with an all wooden wing used on the Anson was a standard and very good method of construction in the 1930’s. Indeed the Anson structure was a family development of that which Fokker in Germany made in the first World War.

Avro made Fokker three motor Airliners under licence between the two wars. The Avro Anson was a twin engined General purpose military design based on the Avro Five/Six tri-motor airliners which used the basic Fokker construction but with the wing set low as opposed to the airliners which had high set wings. All metal construction Monocoque structures only came to the fore in the mid 1930’s and we were perilously close to going to war with a Biplane equipped Air force. The ‘Annie’ was thought to be a very modern aeroplane just pre war.

Something jars a little. I’m sure that the deceased’s family would have been offered a military funeral as this is the right of every serviceman but if the family requested a private burial at a more distant place then this might be waived. I presume that Stan now rests under a CWGC headstone. as a honoured war dead.

John

To add a little more. The Anson later got a metal wing and continued in service well into the sixties and it was the first military aeroplane I flew in.
In regards to the Chest type chute, they were kept in a bin secured by a bungie. You clipped them on to your harness with two spring loaded hooks and I was warned that it was possible to put them on upside down so the rip cord handle was not where you expected it to be if you were automatically right handed . It worried me on flights in Canberra’s.

[QUOTE=PhantomII;2249430]That was for the rear gunner I presume?

If you mean the rear gunner for the Aldis sight. No the gunner’s sights were the standard Lewis type in use. (Norman vane ?). I found 500 rounds in the King Armament book. The two Vickers when fitted were mounted in a similar way but with variations in the belt feed chutes. It’s of note that the Swedish Harts had the FF gun on the Stbd side.

John

Whether it was official policy or not the making up the weight of a coffin with sand was something I came across when I was first in the RAF in the early 60’s in relation to high energy Jet bomber crashes and if heard by civilians I suggest that it’s become more of a story in the telling.

Unlike an all metal heavier operational type carrying a warload, the construction of the Anson with a steel tube and fabric fuselage and wooden wing is such that it would likely disintegrate on the surface leaving the two heavier and more robust engines to go deeper and any fire would consume the wood and doped fabric so there would be very little to stick out of the ground. However this disintegration would probably throw out the unfortunate aircrew, largely intact if sadly burnt. If there was no fire on impact then there could be substantial rear fuselage wreckage left above ground. I would assume that an Anson crew trainer would not be carrying a practice bomb load.

John

PS Just to add, the Air Britain Anson file quotes NK890 crashed at night and burnt out near Lyneal Wood 3 miles ESE of Elsmere.

Afraid not. It sounds like a group of Lepidopterae journeying together. The larger type if radial engine’d may have been a Stearman or a Waco or Travelair as some other types go by invite if flown by Moth club members. I hope to see what there is tomorrow.

John

It’s the Moth gathering at Woburn Abbey this weekend.

John