It’s actually not that difficult to figure that the claims of the French pilots are simply a misrepresentation of the facts, maybe they just don’t know better and didn’t grasp the concept, but that doesn’t change the facts.

I totally agree with you on this point (sorry, Eagle1).

I think Grandclaudon’s claims about MMI of Typhoon are false. He simply failed to explain how the Rafale’s MMI are superior to the Typhoon’s.

Whether either aircraft will be able achieve air superiority (against greater numerical odds) will depend on many factors (and is far from given). But point is the EF will retain a first-look advantage vis-a-vis the Rafale.

Not even sure.

As I said earlier, Rafale pilots claim they can detect a Typhoon twice as far as another Rafale. This suggests a ten times difference in RCS AT LEAST.
You can’t discard this hypothesis. It is consistent with what was later published in A&C :

They asked French pilots what were the strengh of Rafale over Typhoon… and […] VICE VERSA, the strengh of Typhoon over Rafale.

So, Typhoon has better engine above 20,000 ft, which give it the edge for combat in high altitude. It also has a longer range radar, and a longer range missile.
However, they say, those two last advantages (radar range, missile range) are balanced by the Rafale significantly smaller RCS, better sensor fusion (thus better situation awareness). And the higher thrust is balanced by the better low speed aerodynamics of the Rafale.

Sorry for quoted them indirectly through myself :

http://rafale.freeforums.org/pilot-claims-about-rafale-vs-typhoon-after-actual-encounters-t137.html

(new RCS/originalRCS)^0.25 * range with original RCS

So, if I get it properly, Eurofighter isn’t out of margin. They may go further again, while we don’t know what Dassault is doing.:D

Eurofighter has acceleration from 200 kts to Mach 0.9+ in <20 seconds – also as 200 kts to Mach 1.0 at Low altitude in 30 seconds. QRA climb to 12192 m in 2 minutes.

I once had this kind of data in my signature…

SuperCruise : Mach1.3 (with 4 AAMs); from 300 to 1000km/h in 20s; 9.5t empty; 24.5t MTOW; 1850km HiLoHi combat radius; 55,000ft; Climb rate : >325m/s; Land at 120kts; Max Operational speed : Mach1.8 (Mach2.0+ capable); hi-subsonic/5.5g autopilot at 100ft; excellent ergonomics and sensor fusion; CATOBAR (15.4t Bring-Back) : Rafale !

This is from 160kts to M0.8 in 20 seconds. We don’t really know how better the Typhoon is, since you have a “<” before the “20 seconds”. 😀

Rafale reaches 40,000ft (your 12,192m) in less than 2 minutes with 1 drop tank and 4 missiles for QRA too. I guess Typhoon is a bit better here, in fact.

The 100 km vs 3 sqm target is a tracking range figure which is rather old and might be outdated. The 130+ km vs 5 sqm figure is a newer one and is for detection. I think 130 km for the current PESA and 180 km for the AESA fits well, but for completion I found it fair to bring up all reported numbers which I have found. Exact figures are classified anyway, but that’s no news for anyone here. 😉

I can’t find where you found against which targets those ranges are achieved (3sqm ? 5sqm ?)

Usually, our newspaper claim “fighter sized” (undefined standard).

However, the 100 km range was given for lookdown, AFAIR.

its simple, less moving parts, has more thrust than the M88..

:eek::eek::eek:

Do you realize what you are comparing ?

We should really have this topic locked for 2 weeks.

In fact, I was thinking of the “Nice MMRCA N&D” thread…

But we’re mixing everything in a Typhoon thread… 😮

Build quality?? capability?? take your pick

LoL yes !
These are the two only possible answers when you want anything else to look like pure lie, prejudice, bull…t etc.

Edelstenne’s opinion on the matter is simply unbearable, and would be too costly to any French’s credibility to be shown here (again).

So, ok, let’s suggest that a Typhoon is overall more capable than a Rafale (buddybuddy refueling, nuke, recon and all doesn’t matter) or that Dassault can’t make the good choices when assembling effectively a discreet fighter.

Ok.

We should really have this topic locked for 2 weeks.